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RELIGION

DaZeD

Alpiniste Kundalini
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25 Août 2006
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658
Hi,
I was wondering if there are many people on this forum who are religious?
I like to believe that people who seek inner truth by altering the mind with entheogens/psychedelics have thought religion through and reached a point where they feel that religion is like a facade.

I at least feel this way, in every form religion there seems to be corruption and extremists, Buddhism excluded though.
But there is a thin line that connects all religion and it that's, peace, respect, and tolerance for others, and yet in every religion we see people who are hostile and even violent towards other religions let alone people from their own religion, while the main goal of a religion should be to create peacefulness and tolerance towards other, at least that's what i think, it could be mass control too, but that's open for debate :p .

I can't understand this, people are like sheep, they read some holy books without digging too deep and accept it, or misiterpret it, can't they just think for themselves and see how blind they are.

I'm not religious but i'm sure i'm way more spiritual then many religious people, do we really need religion?
 
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And there is a crap you didn't talk in all the shit that religion spreads. The Religion takes the spirit, the will of people to search and understand the universe, the reality, the consciousness, life and space-time; and replaces it by all its crap to have money and power.

This prevents people to dream and to understand a little bit. This prevents people to evolve.

This is why in addition to be a commercial crap, this is a dangerous shit.
 
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DaZeD a dit:
Buddhism excluded though.

Nope, do some research on what happened in Japan in 1920 (read "Zen at War") and you'll see that Buddhism isn't different when it comes to justify a war using a religious motive.
 

BrainEater

Banni
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21 Juil 2007
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5 922
hey i think that religion nowadays is often corrupted by power, greed, nescience and other shit, especially in the "western world".
and although i too agree it can make people dull and not curious any more we should probably still try to see people as they
are and not categorize them too blindly in general, like many of them themselves do. also to me it seems in religions there are good and bad people like almost everywhere with such big groups, however maybe we shouldn't judge too quickly and condemn a religion for their people or the people for their religion. it could be many people sort of use religion like other things, that they (think) they need to cling to, for the (false) ego. i'm not saying religion is wrong in general, but you should still have open eyes, mind and heart.
i believe you don't need to go to church or so in order to commune with your god. nature is a very good place too, maybe even better, because nature knows to praise the true god and always does that. :)
it seems to me religion should be about truth, peace and tolerance. sadly indeed, the opposite manifested in mainly christianity, a very cruel religion and sheepish, in my opinion at least, but there are still a lot of good people in christianity, that haven't become corrupted in their hearts, despite a lot of wrong things going on in the religion.
beware however of the deception that is sometimes being done in order to make people give their personal power and freedom away and beware of deceptive people that only seek to corrupt your faith. there are signs for believers in many things, if you have your own eyes to see.
god sees and knows all things we do and think. so fear not, but fear god alone and trust in god. to me it is sure there is only one god, despite so many religions plus god is the greatest and the most mercyful.
generally i would say if religion makes people do good deeds, joyful, peaceful and have open minds, then it can be good.
however it appears to me often it can be a spiritual trap and mislead people.
so what can i say..? use your brains to think and your hearts to see. the truth within you will se you free. :idea: :arrow: :D

peace!
 

ophiuchus

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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14 Nov 2006
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4 530
"...use your brains...and your hearts..."

that's really about the only situation in religion that creates problems. aside from OUTSIDE factors like the economy($) being tied to it.

but that's what church is for, yeah? there'd be no point in the idea of church if everyone "used their hearts and brains"
 

BrainEater

Banni
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21 Juil 2007
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5 922
i didn't say that ...well who knows?? maybe indeed blind hearts and brains do create problems not only in religion? just sayin' we should listen more to nature and our own nature. also it could be, that religion may be less corrupted and misleading and not tied to the idea of church or have that in a totally different meaning. anyway, i guess with that phrase i only wanted to encourage to follow your own natural feeling of intuition or so. :wink:

peace!
 

itsscience

Alpiniste Kundalini
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7 Oct 2010
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560
I'm not a big fan of organised/institutionalised religions but my experiences have led me not to be a vocal detractor of religions.

I have seen a number of my friends and family use their religions to get them through very trying times like the death of a father, wife and brother. These people close to me were able to find solace in the their religions and were able to use them to deal with the losses of loved ones that otherwise seemed cruel and pointless.

As many on this forum are grappling with the shitty system of society that we live in by turning to psychedelics in the search for truth so to do many turn to religion to grapple with the same thing. I try to be tolerant of religions for these reasons but I find it difficult because of all the death and destruction caused by the same religions that make many peaceful people's lives more liveable.
 

DaZeD

Alpiniste Kundalini
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25 Août 2006
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658
I do understand why people have a religion, i once red a newsitem that stayed with me about a man who got out of jail after 25 years 'cause there was evidence that proved his innocence, the man didn't feel any wrath or anger against the system at all because in jail he became a deeply religious man, the bible saved his soul.

If i got out of jail after 25 years and i was innocent i would probably be mad as hell, so in that way i miss out on a very important thing.

But it's all in the head, and if religion does the trick to some people i can't see a problem, on the other hand religion causes a lot of anger and hate too, it's very paradoxal.
 

Jerika_Rain

Neurotransmetteur
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22 Fev 2011
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64
"I'm not a big fan of organised/institutionalised religions but my experiences have led me not to be a vocal detractor of religions.

I have seen a number of my friends and family use their religions to get them through very trying times like the death of a father, wife and brother. These people close to me were able to find solace in the their religions and were able to use them to deal with the losses of loved ones that otherwise seemed cruel and pointless.

As many on this forum are grappling with the shitty system of society that we live in by turning to psychedelics in the search for truth so to do many turn to religion to grapple with the same thing. I try to be tolerant of religions for these reasons but I find it difficult because of all the death and destruction caused by the same religions that make many peaceful people's lives more liveable."

^^this!
 

Jerika_Rain

Neurotransmetteur
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22 Fev 2011
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64
This might not even be totally applicable to the conversation...but am still kind of evolving in my religious beliefs

But I have heard a lot about a coorelation between religious people and weakness. Religion is a crutch etc etc.

It always occurred to me that I think it takes great strength to truly believe in something completely intangible. So in that vain, I do have a certain level of respect/appreciation for "religious" people.

To walk by faith and not by sight is quite challenging.
 

itsscience

Alpiniste Kundalini
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7 Oct 2010
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560
But I have heard a lot about a coorelation between religious people and weakness. Religion is a crutch etc etc.

We all have crutches and they come in many different forms and we usually have more than one crutch. For many years weed has been my crutch and I am trying to let go of that crutch at the moment it just seems that rather than give the crutch away I'm exchanging it for a different crutch, exercise. I personally feel there is nothing wrong with having crutches to help us deal with our reality, the danger lies in excessive reliance on and use of those crutches. As someone said to me on this site "everything in moderation man".

It always occurred to me that I think it takes great strength to truly believe in something completely intangible

+1

But true belief in something intangible can also be borne out of ignorance and lack of education as well as strength - these are the fanatics who cause war and evil.
 

DaZeD

Alpiniste Kundalini
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25 Août 2006
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658
Religion = Self hypnosis to put it extremely simple.

Religion can be good when you are able to read between the lines, and not many will do that, so much people believe there is a heaven, and when i ask them what heaven is like some still think it's an actual place in the sky, okey, call me an idiot but i think that's really naive, it's a medieval concept, and with our current knowledge of the universe that bubble should've been popped by now, so if they believe that, then i really don't know what to make of their commitment to their faith either.

It's true, life is an intelligent design, the human body is close to perfect, and deep inside i aught to believe "someone" created all this, but it's just a very simple explanation to an answer we don't have.

And what is God?
Is it someone, something, what is God?
And before God, who created God?

If people don't have answers to that then God is a really weak attempt to create an answer to life imo.
The God theory is totally unpolished.

And there are many, many Gods depending on different cultures, who's right?
It's really silly, the founder of Scientology realized that apparantly and started a whole new faith, and yes, even intelligent morrons go with it, and they always pay shitloads of money for their faith too. :wink:
 

BrainEater

Banni
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21 Juil 2007
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5 922
hey keep asking the right questions and you will discover the truth. "seek and you shall find", to bring in a bible quote.
hmm it appears to me, surely a big part of the conflict of faith or not faith etc etc is because of the various divergences and convergences there are or seem to be in between and through the concepts of subjectivity and objectivity plus their relativistic emergence and taking effect in the individual and collective people.

in my opinion religion without faith is like a shoe without soles and faith without religion maybe at least a bit like soles without a shoe, but probably more like a solar system without planets or something like that.

i think hypnosis whether self hypnosis or not , "dehypnosis" or not, plays a rather big, but unrecognized or unnoticed role, in the ways and directions that religion, faith or the lack of thereof lead the people to go or not go to where they are going or not going. basically i view hypnosis as a process of programmation of mostly the subconscious and unconscious mind. so that's why i think regaining a feeling of truth, reality etc etc and generally like self-responsability is important. i mean like for example if you thought you were free, but were not, would you then not be more of a slave or unfree? how to know that you don't know?? or how to be sure to not know, that you know?? pretty confusing huh.. :mrgreen:
hmm also i actually think, that while rationalism + materialism seem to be very dominating paradigms in big parts of the modern world, they led and/or will lead to the inner forgetting of a deeper truth and tend to bury that more and more because of a overload and too much focus in "the big picture" (individual or collective) scheme of things with certain limited rational thought patterns, understanding and a lot of bias, in my opinion. i don't mean that one must reject rational, scientific discoveries, etc etc, but they can be included in one's paradigm, without the limitations that a lot of overly rational paradigms seem to have to them.

as if nature, reality, the world, etc are losing many people's original approach plus towards themselves. for example like DaZeD is saying in the last post that seemingly certain advancements put a undoubtable shadow on the "truths" of the past, but maybe forgetting a possibly vast amount of knowledge that might be required to be really certain, especially regarding the topic of faith, since it could be way more ancient than a lot of other human achievements throughout the course of (the mystery) of history and thus a lot more incomprehensible than assumed. :p
so now speaking of God. God is eternal, infinite and therefore never having been created nor ever ceasing to exist. God is beyond human definition and understanding, most exalted, mosty mercyful, allknowing, allmighty and infinitely intelligent. not anyone nor anything can ever really present a threat to God. well,what else would you expect from the most high being of ALL existence?? :D
now the last bits of information are as i see it, easily to be read or written, however it is probably conversely difficult to truly "get it", depending on the person of course. i can say of myself that i still live in ignorance in terms of at least even approximately be able to grasp or imagine the true meaning of the statement and its possible implications.

in addition to that i believe it is rather crucial to realize that God is one and hence there can only be one God. in spite of the infinite manifestations and creations, of which we most likely know very very very little, apart from like the knowledge and truth being scattered among the people and groups of them, all are/is united in the oneness and unity of God. so if people have many gods or so, i suppose they still would only (be able to) pray and serve the one God, while they may not know, but as i said maybe the truth is for many quite often not so obvious and relatively unknown for whatever reasons??
God to me appears to be the all-transcendent person from whom all things came in the beginning and to whom all things shall return in the end. obviously ,the attributes of the person of God differ greatly from the persons of humans, altho the latter being akin to the former. so anyway, for various reasons many people need to wake up from the limitations + illusions they allowed on themselves and "their world" so the natural, original potential can be remembered and restored.

i think it can help to remember you once were a child and maybe try to see it all like that or similarly again and besides for the infinite being that is God, all living beings no matter how old are "like" children. in simple matrix terms you may say as a valuable advice, "unplug and stay unplugged". 8)

ok, i hope this is somewhat understandable and easy to read. :)

peace!! :weedman:
 

sidefx

Alpiniste Kundalini
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9 Nov 2007
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532
Just Believe in yourself.

but i believe there is a higher source of these things, some kind of energy.

in the spirit molecule dvd they reckon our brains are reacting to something that is going on like a radio. reality.

An astronomer once said the best Question he has ever been asked was from a 6 year old, while talking about the big bang the kid asked " What happened before the big bang " he couldnt satisfy the childs question enough
 

Lambsbread

Matrice périnatale
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9 Mar 2011
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16
I think that religion is hope.

People often turn to religion when times are bad to give themselves hope that things would get better and to give them comfort because they think some almighty power is watching over them guiding them.

Also the second earliest piece of artwork was a small portable statue of a fat woman that was thought to be the deity of the people who created it. At this period in history it is thought that food was scarce seeming as it was not long after the ice age. a fat woman typically represent fertility and food so these people create a deity around what they needed what they hoped was in the next valley they travelled to.

But I do think there is some sort of almighty power that created things to work how they do. Because nature is so complex its hard for me to think how it all works so well together without something that crated a code to make this happen. im not sure after typing this i've realised i need to reflect on the subject more because i have so many un answerd questions in my mind at the moment.
 

DaZeD

Alpiniste Kundalini
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25 Août 2006
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658
Well Braineater, it is rather confusing, but i think i catch your drift.

Don't we all seek for rationalism?
Your thinking in quantum physic-like ways friend. :p Nothing wrong with that, in fact i'm reading a few books on them, Yoga of Time Travelling and Taking the Quantum Leap, you might like them.

I think religion and faith can be two different things though, you don't need a religion to be spiritual or to feel divine love, God as you will, there can be God without religion, not the way around.

I just don't see God (and that's just a name for a complex energy that surrounds us) as a person or as some "one", to build complete stories around it can be good for some reasons, but only when you are able to read between the lines and are capable of realizing it's symbolic, to believe that Shiva or Vishnu or Mozes actually existed and did all those things, well....You know.

But the symbolic value is very important to bring a bigger picture, and can be very usefull, but it is in no way to be taken literate.

And welcome Lambsbread, we all feel the complex energy that surrounds us and the intelligent design is very obviously there, entheogenic experiences teach us that there are higher entities and powers we can not understand, much more complex then we could ever comprehend, but do we need a certain religion for it to be aware of that/them?We need answers, and asking the right question is indeed part of the solution, so let's try and ask them, no confusing stories that keep people divided by religion, we should unite instead of being divided.
 

ophiuchus

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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14 Nov 2006
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4 530
recently i've been listening to people's very well presented theories that all religions may in fact be true. this coming from multiple sources well within the scientific community... the amount of evidence is pretty overwhelming actually.


david wilcock (divinecosmos.com):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zAMdYC8 ... ure=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STqkZR2P ... ure=fvwrel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl2sf5fu ... ure=fvwrel

dan winter (goldenmean.info)


im not posting the other 11 parts because they can easily be found by clicking the first one
 

DaZeD

Alpiniste Kundalini
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25 Août 2006
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658
Hey thanks!
I'm gonna check them out, I'm really curious how they came to the idea that all religions can be true, since there's so many and they all contradict each other.
 

ararat

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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8 Juin 2006
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3 374
when one takes literally what religions teach, they seem to contradict themselves, but when one really gets into what they say, one invariably finds that they all talk about the same thing. maybe they talk about different aspects, different paths, but the peak of the mountain stays the same, no matter from which side you climb it.
this of course does not count for ALL religions, but for a great deal of them.
 

DaZeD

Alpiniste Kundalini
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25 Août 2006
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658
You totally got it BananaPancake!

And those things are; love, unity, respect, compassion, charity, tolerance, peace etc.
You find them in almost any type of religion.

Those are the things that realy count, and yet there is so much war and hate just because of religion, don't they get the message then?

There surely is a divine and profound energy that binds us all, every plant, animal, and human, we can call that God, when someone mentions God i interpret that term in this way, a form of energy, once in a while i use the term "God", -even though not in a religious sense- to name the ineffable, we don't understand it, we have no answers to it, so we build stories around it, and people fight over it and kill each other in the name of "God", it's like a childsplay, a fight over who has the best story, (often to be sold) while this is totally irrelevant, in old India many forms of religion, including Buddhism, Christianity and Islam lived in total harmony, they build churches next to mosks and temples and they all where tolerant towards eachother, they got it then, what happened?

This is what truely bothers me about religion, and if not more about the religious people themselves who fail to see the true meaning of their religion.Heck, even Satanism is all about the fore mentioned keywords.

Another question that keeps me going is "what is stronger, love or hate?Those two are both very strong emotions, two extremely strong forms of energy, and to me they are like Yin and Yang, equal.

Heaven and hell are fictional places to discribe those states of mind, why on earth do some people actually take this literally?

Too many questions. :p
 
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