Mythic Living

[Shamanomenon]

This is for those who are familiar with Jung and archetypes. I haven't done extensive reading of Jung, but I have read a few things and like his work. In fact, I had never heard of him until my foray into psychedelics which led me to the concept of "synchronicity." Anyway. From what I can ascertain, Jung seems to assert that archetypes are elements and patterns of the collective unconscious that we as humans all share and that essentially we are doomed to continually fall into these patterns unless we become aware of them and synthesize a whole psyche from our unconscious and conscious states. So, essentially, we need to learn to recognize our patterns (archetypes) so that we don't constantly fall into them. However, I can't help but notice that the further along I go on my journey of synthesis through the use of psychedelics and inner exploration, the more I tend to come to the belief that archetypes are not a boon, but a great power waiting to be harvested. Through my reading of non-fiction and fiction, often randomly selected or random recommendations by friends of an unrelated genre, again, I get a sense of synchronicity as one book ends with a concept that is picked up in the next book. It all keeps coming back to this idea of what I can only refer to as "mythic living" that embodies a sense of power through becoming the archetype. Maybe the power doesn't lie in the archetype, but the recognition of the archetype. But this isn't the power I speak of, this is the power of which Jung spoke of for the synthesis of the psyche. Perhaps, what I really mean, is the concept of being able to access and project into the collective unconscious, to effect or change the psyche (or at least half the psyche, the unconscious part) of mankind.

Basically, I am just trying to find if anyone else has thought along these lines, has any insight to share or knows of any resources I might look into in order to further explore this concept.

 

[ararat]

I read a career-finding guide that basically had this at its heart. it suggested to live by the hero archetype, as intricately described by Joseph Campbell (I think his books might be what you are looking for. to be sure, they are more about myth than archetypes). I haven't read the book by Campbell, but I'm not entirely sure of the approach of living by the hero archetype, it seems kind of egoic, but hey, I virtually know nothing about the subject. keep us updated if you're making progress

 

[Styloplume]

I guess we're on the same path, actually. My psychedelic explorations of my self give almost the same results: it seems that I "integrate" archetypes into my psyche. Experiencing them in the trip, noting it, and then letting them express themselves through me in the every day life. And, vice versa, recognizing my every day life psyche changes in the archetypes I am encountering in trips afterwards.

For instance, I had one moment on DXM, where I spoke with my inner beast, wich was fairly weak, full of anger. The beast had my face, and orc traits, in the LOTR style. I decided to speak with it, to see what was the point the beast was angry about. I told it it was nice and beautyfull, in order to give it love. The beast was then released, in a way.

One month later, on a recreational trip, I let the beast express its great contentment for the joy I had on that day.

Yet this beast was still a part of me. It was still limited in size and capacity.

One month later, on an introspective DXM trip, I asked the beast to show itself, crouched under my bed cover, and waited a few seconds. Somehow it made like click and I got connected with the archetype. I raised from the crouching posture, spread my arms very slowly to the sides, and rised from the bed. But it was not me. It was not even my beast. It was a freaking powerfull minotaur who started to slowly walk in my room, and I was like watching it from the inside. Then I came back to the bed, the beast sat down just like the leader of Hades' army would do. A shit-scaring bunch of power, strenght, and self-confidence. Then it made like click once more and I came back.

Holy shit, what was that? Well, after managing to speak with my personnal beast, I got connected to the beast archetype. Freaking awesome and frightening.

Now this great beast is a part of my self. Or I got conscious that I am a part of the collective (un)consciousness.

I write (un)cousciousness, cause I guess, this beast is an archetype from the collective uncouscious as described by Jung, and yet it is no longer uncouscious to me.

Well, I guess the challenge is to merge into those archetypes, and not get mad at the same time. That encounter with the beast archetype was what I'd called tripping balls. Shaking al the psyche at once. Wow. I'll go on, cause I understand this is a sane path, yet I'll take care of what I'm doing.

Thanks for the interesting question. Do we somehow think the same way?

 

[zezt]

What I do is question mythologies. I have read good critiques against Jung by feminists, such as here:

[h=3]Chapter 3: The Feminist Critique of the Separated Self[/h]JUNG: Although in Jung we find a psychology that is matrifocal in nature, as compared to Freud's patrifocal perspective, Jung's preoccupation with finding wholeness and achieving individuation also requires, Keller argues, a matricidal impulse.105 "His theory," she writes, "supports our suspicion that the matricidal symbolism not only expresses but provokes the Western development of a separate and andromorphic ego."106 That is, "the whole self at which individuation aims requires ultimate reconciliation...with the slaughtered mother",107 even if the individuation process presupposes an ego defined by separation from the mother.
Referring to Jung's Symbols of Transformation, Keller indicates how Jung came to the conclusion that the achievement of psychological maturity requires the dismemberment of the mother, symbolized by dragons or serpents. This, she notes, is reminiscent of the foul deed performed by Marduk in the Enuma Elish. It is only through the slaughter of the "monster," known as woman, that the hero established the world. In psychological parlance, symbols of dragons and serpents refer to the unconscious.
Thus the maturation of the warrior-identified self requires that ego-consciousness be freed from the grip of the "deadly" unconscious. "Deadly," writes Keller, "presumably because it prevents the emergence of conscious individuality."108
Like Freud, Jung characterizes the ego in terms that represent women's psyches in a negative way. Both render descriptive truths about the male psyche normative and both the Jungian and Freudian perspective are psychologically androcentric. Both Jung and Freud understand ego development as requiring emerging consciousness to radically separate itself from the mother. Both also claim that the development of woman's ego does not require such a high degree of separation from the mother. A result of this perspective is that women are denigrated and considered lacking in moral scruples, strength of will, and autonomy. Women are described by these two `fathers' of psychology as deficient and merely possessing such traits as emotionalism, connectivity, awareness of physicality, and so on. In a word, women are conceived as "monsters," who deviate from the masculine norm of selfhood.

IE., this is where comes the idea of the 'superman' or 'hero' who strains to get 'above nature' and thus--because anciently nature is associated with the Mother, this mythic 'archetype' drives this sense 'unconsciously, and we can see it playing out all over the wolrd in all the patriarchal ideological branches, from the Christian/Isalmist/Zionist who seek escape to heavehn, or a new earth (ie., given from a MASCULINE 'God' to correct 'fallen nature'), to the Eastern mystics who seek escape from the physical mother (birth and death) including nature towards some everlasting bliss, and not forgetting the secular ideology which thinks all-is-matter and the savious is 'mankind's' technological prowess which can control nature!

 

[zezt]

By the way, sorry if all the black italic text and underlining seems I am trying to force you to believe this. It is simply I copied this from a file, and I emphasized this so I could find these passages for blogs I have done
the latter part which also is so was a glitch---it just happened and I couldn't un do the bold and underlineing

 

[BrainEater]

well i noticed something like that in the media and in some people... it seems to have positive and negative manifestations or so...actually i think the media and commercialism is trying to exploit this a lot and i mostly don't like how this is happening at all. it sometimes seems as if they want to imprint their lifestyle or so and make people afraid that they aren't worth anything if they aren't like this or like that or something like that. often it's just very cruel in the way how it's done. as if something depended on that their myths are accepted. but yeah if you see it like this, then it makes sense. because it can be like subtle forms of enforcement for example when you have to look at something even if you don't really like to. i can't explain it very well right now, but basically it could be like mind control in a way. it could be as if they want to tell you "look at how great we are, and therefore believe everything we say" or so... i mostly just pity attitudes like that. i would say, please be aware and a bit careful then you can see through it. if you ask me, it's got to do a bit with the concepts of attachment and disattachment.



peace

 

[zezt]

yes they want you to see them as superior. They depend on you feeling inferior. This is exactly what their toxic myths are designed for. To make sure their slaves do not get to understand they are equal with the enslavers.

There is a distinction between being a slave who KNOW they are in chains--so to speak--and resent the fact, and want freedom because they know they are not a slave, and the slave who really feels her/his place is as a slave

They have done the same in India with their myths---their caste system. They make out there is 'karma' --a universal law--which decides who is the slave and who is the master! SAME thing!

This shit is everywhere.

So when we begin saying to ourselves, eg 'hmmmm, I am going to begin looking closer at these myths and maybe see through them' then you begin shucking off the internalization of oppression.

Psychedelics are VERY powerful medicines for directly doing this, but often when people 'come down' the matrix can begin to suck them in again, IF they are not exploring and integrating all about this

We need ecstasy, intuition, and also critical thinking, all as continuum of being.

 

[ophiuchus]

essentially, we need to learn to recognize our patterns (archetypes) so that we don't constantly fall into them. However, I can't help but notice that the further along I go on my journey of synthesis through the use of psychedelics and inner exploration, the more I tend to come to the belief that archetypes are not a boon, but a great power waiting to be harvested.

power through becoming the archetype

^this

We need ecstasy, intuition, and also critical thinking, all as continuum of being.

these are all a part of the continuum of being. the positive part. the thing about these is that they will always be intrinsically linked to the other side of this continuum, which is inherent to the entire system and "negative" in nature. we must embrace all of it as a whole. without one that other does not exist.

 

[ararat]

I read "He: Understanding Masculine Psychology" by Robert A. Johnson the other day and it blew my mind. He explains male psychology by the story of Parsifal in some dense 93 pages. I had a great sense of synchronicity when reading it, as if somebody sat down in front of me and explained the story of my life to me :lol: it may or may not be as exact as that. but it did feet like a lot of puzzle pieces falling together to create a whole, if only temporarily.

 

[Shamanomenon]

No, you are 1000% correct. It's something I refer to as Mythic Living. Same exact thing. It wasn't always recommendations. For me, it was just random picks at the library that all seemed to focus on one singular point. Mythic Living. Believe it!

 

[zezt]

Even Jung was limited and caught up in his own images, or archetypes, like his image of the 'God image' for example, and IMAGE of the Feminine.

I recently watched a documentary about Hitler and occultism. In the video it is said that Wagner was Hitler's rol model, and his favourite opera by him was Parsifal---a story about this hero's search for the Holy Grail, believed by Hitler, and SS, to be a goblet full of pure Aryan blood, and only to be found by the purest of knights.. Parsifal was Hitler's central myth.

So what do we see here? Well I see mythic literalism, and of course utter misinterpretation---a most dangerous thing, and we saw how it turned out.

From my own research, when there are things sought for in mythic tales, the ROOT meaning of what they are are psychedelics!!! IE they are pointing to experience which is the very source of imagination, creativity, storytelling/mythology.

IF Hitler and his lackies had understood this, and partaken of the 'holy grail'/psychedelics in a respectful and loving way they would not have dreamt of doing the evil they did.

 

[ararat]

in any case jung was wayy ahead of his contemporaries.


I think the core of a mythological experience is to see the story (or archetype) one is living, rather than being possessed by it, as Hitler was. Seeing is freeing.

 

[BrainEater]

maybe consider level thinking... what if other people think??? and if they think on what level do they think?? what do they think i think, what do i think they think, what do i think they think i think they think i think etc etc... ad infinitum etc etc... so yeah... according to terrence mc kenna culture is often an intelligence test and not our friend.
i can tell you, with most people it's uncomfortable to watch them turn to animals... it seems only with very few people it's comfortable. but don't give up... there are too many people trying to give their best and also part of the bad people try to become noble when they can understand and recognize what they had really been doing.
i would say, we're here to learn. psychonauts are pioneers in society evolution and a lot of other shit. also ever thought of it like this: what if how we look at, perceive and experience the planet, each other and ourselves is all energy that can have effects?


don't let idiots downplay your true nature as cosmic beings. it means, we know who we are and don't need them to tell us that, basically. the point where people should be really aware and able to draw an absolute line is when people start and/or want to tell you how you feel. the question would be what would be their motivation and/or benefit...
some people think they have figured out emotional calculation... i tell you beware of most of such people if they are not deep philosophers or maybe especially if it seems as if they are deep philosophers... instead try to see whether they are good and honest people. emotional calculation is something that is a robot paradigm. that should say it all.
you gotta be able to detach your self-image from others' image of you. not everybody is calculable...if you ask me, it's about being "nice" to each other... just a joke.. lol...


i think it's mostly grotesque to even think like that... but then again i have experienced how shallow some people can be... however maybe for really good and inspired people it can be fun and nice also...
regarding hitler, i would say it should be relatively obvious, he might have had some serious ego compensation issues.
a little bit strange idea, but do you think all people can heal themselves and why or why not exactly??
also movie myths and archetypes are different from book myths and archetypes.
the question could be: what does it mean if something can be both shallow and deep at the same time.. ??
the philosophic argument of how it's all a matter of perspective and supposedly not a matter of perspective.
understand??? this is just how people can be dumbed down, but sometimes myths and stories in general
can broaden the horizons or so. i just think it should be alarming when people are not able to care about something else than their own comfort. beware with some people if they try to suggest that they are family. oh man i guess there's probably so much more to say about this topic. but well better not too many thought impulses at a time...





peace

 

[zezt]

I like a lot of what you say there! Especially you encouraging people not to let others tell them how to be. In this culture if you become distressed, the pressure is to 'get help'. There are really only two ways offered---.psychiatric medication' or various forms of talk therapy, and both ways are coercive and power-driven.

The underlying myth behind this 'help' is that we are shallow biological robots whose only purpose is to produce for the State/matrix and to consume for the State/matrix. So the pressure is to fit a person back into the matrix. So in effect these 'expert therapists' are gatekeepers for this prisonhouse called reality.

The main power they have over us is paper money. They can threaten to take money away and then you can starve, become homeless etc.

At the helm of this nightmare are the occult elite, and they create the myth of the reality via mindcontrol. A BIG example of this in action is their false flag 9/11. I am currently reading and studying this book, and VERY recommend it --checkit out The Most Dangerous Book in the World: 9/11 as Mass Ritual , by S. K. Bain

He shows the meticulousness these occult elites design for their evil rituals etc. Now, I was already used to this. Many years ago, I found this very life-changing book titled The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, by John M. Allegro
Allegro reveals how they composed mythology--using various layers, wordplay, transliteration, the use of 'dead' languages like Sumerian, etc etc. Now, the core meaning was just for the initiated, then another layer could be say for the theologians, and the surface layer was for the gullible believers who took the stories--especially the Christian mythology which is made out to be historical--literally.
So when 9/11 happened and began to be drawn into the investigation over the years, and I began falling deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole of inquiry, finding out about the occult clues, I was seeing exactly the same process! IE they are still at it!
The real perpetrators of 9/11 are not 19 Muslim hijackers with boxcutters, and the rest--that is just the sur-face story for the gullible believers of the official tale. No, the real criminals behind it are an occult elite, and if you read the book I mention (and other sources) you will find they are very evil people who communicate with each other via symbolism, and numbers etc, and also MOCK their victims and all of us they see as 'in the dark'.

The owl is a predatory bird that can see its prey in the dark, from a higher perspective. It can stay hidden from its prey. Mark Passio: The [symbol of the] owl is, I guess you could say, the mascot of the sorcerers. It is the animal that is most identified with consciousness that is aware, yet is using that knowledge to suppress those that are not in the know.”

In the last couple of months, and in the past, I have tried to engage a few well-known people, who are into various forms of psychedelic research, inso a conversation about the occult elite, and what it means for psychedelic research and experience, but have been met with UTTER silence which I interpret as taboo. IE., I have noticed before that is you mention things that are considered controversial there can happen the same kind of thing---your words suddenly become invisible and there is no response whatsoever.
I contacted, for example, Graham Hancock;s FB, at least twice, and was not only ignored by him, but also by all his followers, and there are many! For remember that Graham is famous for openly speaking about a "war on consciousness" and so I had assumed that there would be at least a little interst---ie the further knowledge that this culture which wages a war against psychedelics and consciousness is an occult elite, and behind 9/11, and that this brings into sharper focus WHY this totally irrational situation even exists.

I tried to discuss this with Michael Vipperman who has done threads here about psychedelic research, and being reminded of him when I visited here a short while ago, I found his blog and he had a pretty deep thread going there, and so I went to his FB and saw he had a post mentioning the work of Hakim Bey (quite a controversial individual) and the subject included sorcery, so I though I would try and include about the occult elite, and was very surprised to see a short curt reply implying that such an inquiry is "delusional", and when I went to reply he was in realtime censoring my posts and in effect banning me!
I am mentioning this and names not to ruin reputations, but to highlight what I sense is a taboo even with deep thinkers and people into psychedelic research.

I emailed Dennis McKenna about this and here is his reply:

I think that since psychedelic researchers work in such a controversial area, they are loathe to risk their credibility; it's hard enough to maintain it in the face of a skeptical scientific community without invoking conspiracy theories, occultism, world dominators, and the rest of it. Whether these things are true or not is not the point.

Well I never replied back, but I think it is very MUCH the point. And I will say that if being a well-known, and/or published person in the psychedelic community--or whereever--acts as a restraint for open inquiry into extremely urgent issues, then you need challenging about such an inhibition. We are living in such urgent times that people MUST face up to what is going on, and not be afraid to talk. It is an illusion that if you keep schtum the psychedelic remissance will be enough. No it won't! The whole point OF psychedelic awareness should be the openess to all fields of inquiry, otherwise your in a very limited hangout.

The OP mentions Jung a lot. I wonder what Jung would have said about the 9/11 event? Would he, like Chomsky, and others who you would have imagined to immediately dig what's going on, just totally dismiss any challenges to the official story as 'conspiracy theory' OR would he have been bold enough to see the occult all over it and speak out about it. We know he cow-towed to the Nazis, so......

So to summarize. We are being mythed by an occult elite which uses various forms of mind control. We in the psychedelic community need very much to get wise to this, because it is VERY real, and encourage debate about what this means, and in this OPENNESS this actually undermines the occultists mode of operation, because they DEPEND on being 'hidden in plain sight', and us being in the dark.

 

[zezt]

OMFG not one response!

 

[BrainEater]

hmm well man... i think i didn't really know what to say at first lol... however i was also a bit shocked, because i also heard and saw a lot of strange shit.... :?
basically, if you ask me, i think the most important thing is that people are nice to each other...
just don't be afraid man!! in the end, evil never wins...
there are many layers of communication... furthermore i also think it's elemental to be able to question shit.
if we always accept everything we are being told or see maybe that's not always good!
people need to be more relaxed man... society is not yet everywhere ready to evolve....
for instance, so many people have accepted a lot of fear as normal... it's about imagining it better!!!
if there was war and people not being nice for a long time it's also more likely that they forgot how it can be different.
that's what we can see in almost everybody's lives... the concept of loose change... it can help very much to practice awareness.
but always try to remain positive... don't get me wrong... i just mean it doesn't help very often to become super paranoid or so. by the way i have had quite a few of moments where i would want to move to another planet.
just don't let others tell you too much if at all, what's possible and what's real.. something like that...
what am i saying??? it's good to be balanced and be able to laugh!!! fearing the others can give them power.
maybe consider the next time you feel fear to see it as a signal and try to know whether it's a psychological fear, which means that it's a fear that has been made more complicated or so. and then you could seriously consider what if you had a choice to fear or not to fear.


well basically i just think it's important to be able to feel all the feelings, but to be able to detach if it's necessary also..
not always identify with your thoughts and maybe try to be able to observe the thoughts and just let them drift them by when you feel too uncomfortable with them.. feelings are very important and powerful. learn to understand your feelings and purify them.
also a lot of people are trying to give their best ... and it's a new generation coming...
believe me, it can all change very fast nowadays... there will be some waves everywhere... waves can get bigger if they get together.. for example music....
just be yourself and believe in yourself. i believe in you, i think there's something to what you say... shit on the too snobbish people, man. keep your openmindedness and go for healthy common sense!!! figure out who you are, who are really your friends and who you can really trust.. maybe stuff like that ... know what i mean? may god be with you, my friend!!! :rock:
that could also mean... focus on yourself and what's within you!! sometimes outside problems are just reflections in some sense.... it sounds a bit crazy, but sometimes the truth can be crazier than you may think!!! not sure if i could say what i really mean, but i just hope you understand what i mean.
just some ideas alright... :retard: :heart:



peace

 

[ararat]

:heart:
nice post.



I think what is scarier than there being a conspiracy, is that there might be none.

 

[darkwolfunseen]

:heart:
nice post.



I think what is scarier than there being a conspiracy, is that there might be none.

This ^^^. Good stuff.

Anyways, had little to add, quite a bit covered already. I will say this is somewhat in line with Meno's Slave example from Socrates (Meno's slave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). However, I fear that there may be a danger with attributing too freely to the unconscious human shared thoughts.

For example, the above story is used by many to argue an existence of such a plane. I think it's a guy who asked a bunch of simple yes/no questions to force feed an answer.

So that being said, if I had to give an explanation of the archetypes described, I'd say it's more a place of "re-connection", a type of gathering of all souls, and as our souls are limited by our bodies during our lives, our "reception" is very weak (though can be enhanced through meditation, entheogens, near-death experiences, etc). If your soul was earlier imprinted with said archetype, I would see nothing wrong with saying that by "falling back into that groove", it enhances it's positive presence as a part of your life.

 

[zezt]

It's not being afriad to look, but NOT to look. For example, if it can be revealed/uncovered/disclosed/found out/exposed that the massive event of 9/11 was really an occulkt ritual which was in part used to do pre-emptive way and kill and maim many innocent adults and children, and is continuing to be used for the same and to to take more of what little freedoms the general public have---then NOT facing this is the worst kind of fear. it is fear pretending to not be fear.

 

[BrainEater]

hmm maybe consider the idea that state/government authorities are very often simply old people. surely i despise old people if they become evil. for example president bush, the monkey. regarding 9/11 i also had the strong impression quite a few times that there is something very foul to it. seeing government idiots talk is something that mostly disgusts me totally. also all the conspiracy stuff disgusts me more than i can tell. often i was just angry and sad. a basic sense of intuition is enough to tell that these people lie a lot. i think most of them are probably more monsters than people. also even though after a bit of research i made myself, it makes sense to me that a lot of shit is lies, maybe you should open a new topic for all that?


also i think fear pretending to not be fear is pure insanity, but maybe even from that something can be learnt. all the oh so adult people.. can they even imagine that they can get something wrong? if you ask me, even if that's probably not the best way to say it, a lot of adults are like retarded children, really.
i suppose thinking too much about such stupid people or stupid people in general, by having stupid fears or so is not intelligent. or how a lot of people have accepted more or less a state of relative or even constant fear as normal...
as i experienced this by myself, i can say it can also be a bodily sensation of uncomfortable tension. so i would say when you become aware of that, it helps to focus only on the breathing in certain moments and also in general.
in my opinion a lot of people are simply too unrelaxed or not "really" relaxed.
i just hope all good people can find their grooves back if they had lost them.
also people should really realize when they are being played out against each other in a negative way. for instance we psychonauts as well!!

@ararat what's the point of your post? do you really think that??
i think that can also often be a oversimplifcation or a misleading statement, besides supposedly a totally intelligent consideration or so. :Oo: :lol: seriously lol... aranoid: :lol: i suppose it's not good to catastrophisize, but maybe you have not yet seen how evil humans can be. :roll:



peace