LSD Psychotherapy, an interview with Dr.Stanislav Grof

[Caduceus Mercurius]

In this podcast from Gnostic Media Jan Irvin interviews Dr. Stanislav Grof, the world's foremost expert on LSD research, as well as one of the original founders of the field of Transpersonal Psychology.

A 2.5 hour whopper of an interview.

Is everything you know about LSD and other psychedelic drugs mass hysteria and propaganda?

This is one of the most eye-opening interviews Jan has done to date.

Stanislav Grof’s professional career has covered a period of over 50 years in which his primary interest has been research of the heuristic and therapeutic potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness. This included initially four years of laboratory research of psychedelics - LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, and tryptamine derivatives - (1956-1960) and fourteen years of research of psychedelic psychotherapy. He spent seven of these years (1960-1967) as Principal Investigator of the psychedelic research program at the Psychiatric Research Institute in Prague, Czechoslovakia. This was followed by seven years of research of psychedelic psychotherapy in the United States.

The first two of these years, he worked as Clinical and Research Fellow at The Johns Hopkins University and in the Research Unit of the Spring Grove State Hospital in Baltimore, MD. The following five years, he held the position of Chief of Psychiatric Research at the Maryland Psychiatric Research Center. In this capacity he headed for several years the last surviving official research project of psychedelic therapy in the USA.

From 1973 until 1987, he was Scholar-in-Residence at the Esalen Institute in Big Sur, California, where he developed jointly with his wife Christina a powerful non-drug form of self-exploration and psychotherapy that they call Holotropic Breathwork. They have used this method in workshops and in professional training in North and South America, Europe, Australia, and Asia. They have also worked with many individuals undergoing spontaneous episodes of non-ordinary states of consciousness, psychospiritual crises or “spiritual emergencies.

 

[MelloTrip]

This looks very interesting.

Downloading.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Tip: To go straight to the interview, skip to 9:20.

 

[zezt]

Yes I stumbled upon it yesterday and listened to it, funnily enough I hadn't noticed link here even though I'd been here first!

I made some notes:

LOVED his metaphor of a LSD being like a tool/knife, because if you describe what a knife can DO there are quite a few different things, bad through to good

I have read lots of Grof's books in the past, heard him talk etc, and as much as I respect what he's done, I tend to feel he is quite a safe kind of guy who doesn't want to rock the boat too much....? Ie., he is not as scathing against the mental health movement as say Szasz and others are. He doesn't speak out as such. Safe

at 32.16 he says: "patients would be given 'valium' when having psychedelic session and this would mean they didn't resolve their experiences and were "stuck in a bad place, and would still be locked up in mental hospitals" He doesn't go on and explain about the VIOLENCE and barbarity of that! And the implication that 'bad places' is just a judgement of the shrinks doing the locking up. To me that is the psychiatrist talking

37.27 Grof seems to differentiate 'internal world' from 'outside world'. Ie., that only 'internal' psychedelic experience is beneficial. This surely is more his psychoanalytical bias being imposed on the healing benefists of psychedelic experience?

YET. Next when asked what he saw as the most exciting potential for the new reniassance of psychedelic therapy Grof says 'creativity' which would mean Trippin with eyes OPEN, which seems to contradcit what he said before, OR was he meaning that just for 'disturbed' people?
Also what he mentioned about creativity seems to be all scientific-based.

When talking about NDES he says "When the consciousness can get out of the body" I find that an odd way to describe it. A though consciousness is a thing

1.4.55 Grof seems to put-down ordinary consciousness as 'mundane pedestrian consciousness which sees world as static' and deify ecstatic awareness. Bohm's 'verb-world'

1.32.12 Grof talks about a "sub group' of 'schizophrenics' who are having spiritual emergencies, implying to me that there are only a 'chosen few' who are having spiritual visionary experience whilst the rest are....what? 'mentally ill' in need of 'anti-psychotics'?

1.35.21 grof repeats how 'freezing' psychedelic experience with 'valiums' (whys he keep saying 'valiums', the shrinks use powerful and very harmful so-called anti-psychotics. Shit, they're even pushing these on children!) is not good because it freezes the person's experience. Yet --as yet (ie., in interview)--no mention of the other overgroup of 'schizophrenics' who are pushed anti-psychotics.

This was a great thing I didn't dig about Reich. Though I found out he was anti gay. Reich believed that if you were having 'mystical' experience this mean you weren't getting good enough sexual orgasms.
Grof said his research had found the contrary, that spiritualy and sexuality were very entwined. And that good psychedelic experience can turn you onto a more loving sexuality where the tactile sense is increased

Also Grof in his put-down remarks about Tim Leary and Ram Dass, and his advice to researchers to follow to the letter Government authority is also what I mean about safe safe safe. This dude just will not speak out against authority is the feeling I am left with. In a WAY he does, because of the controversial nature of his work with psychedelics, but I always feel theres something missing. A boldness................It bugs me about him

 

[Forkbender]

I have read lots of Grof's books in the past, heard him talk etc, and as much as I respect what he's done, I tend to feel he is quite a safe kind of guy who doesn't want to rock the boat too much....? Ie., he is not as scathing against the mental health movement as say Szasz and others are. He doesn't speak out as such. Safe

Ask yourself how you can help the most people. People who think they have a problem and go to a doctor need someone that is within the system. So you need both the Grof's and the Szasz's.

at 32.16 he says: "patients would be given 'valium' when having psychedelic session and this would mean they didn't resolve their experiences and were "stuck in a bad place, and would still be locked up in mental hospitals" He doesn't go on and explain about the VIOLENCE and barbarity of that! And the implication that 'bad places' is just a judgement of the shrinks doing the locking up. To me that is the psychiatrist talking

isn't this something that he says is bad practice? that one should finish the experience instead of stopping it and as a sitter you should help the 'patient' with their process instead of stopping it?

37.27 Grof seems to differentiate 'internal world' from 'outside world'. Ie., that only 'internal' psychedelic experience is beneficial. This surely is more his psychoanalytical bias being imposed on the healing benefists of psychedelic experience?

YET. Next when asked what he saw as the most exciting potential for the new reniassance of psychedelic therapy Grof says 'creativity' which would mean Trippin with eyes OPEN, which seems to contradcit what he said before, OR was he meaning that just for 'disturbed' people?
Also what he mentioned about creativity seems to be all scientific-based.

You don't have to have your eyes open to have a creative trip. You also don't have to close your eyes to have an internal experience. Directing your focus outward can result in an enforcment of the current worldview, directing your focus inward can result in finding out how your worldview shapes your interpretation of everything.

1.32.12 Grof talks about a "sub group' of 'schizophrenics' who are having spiritual emergencies, implying to me that there are only a 'chosen few' who are having spiritual visionary experience whilst the rest are....what? 'mentally ill' in need of 'anti-psychotics'?

Freak outs do happen. They can be avoided, but some people will even interpret the guidelines only in the way they see fit. If a person has a radical materialist/capitalist mindset and takes a trip, he will either change his ways or locks himself up within, making the experience more difficult. You interpret what Grof says too much in terms of hierarchy, and I think Grof just means to say that there are different ways in which people respond to such an experience that either brings them trouble or enlightenment.

Also Grof in his put-down remarks about Tim Leary and Ram Dass, and his advice to researchers to follow to the letter Government authority is also what I mean about safe safe safe. This dude just will not speak out against authority is the feeling I am left with. In a WAY he does, because of the controversial nature of his work with psychedelics, but I always feel theres something missing. A boldness................It bugs me about him

I understand what you say and it is a bit disappointing, but I think it helps if a good psychologist does what he does best instead of becoming an activist. Let others do the fighting.