ayahuasca
- Auteur de la discussion davyh1
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tryptonaut
Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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Have you read the other ayahuasca thread below?
From half of the pack n°1 I felt almost nothing (then I fell asleep before I could drink the rest...)
Also it seems that the pack n°1 isn't a very high dose, it's rather low (too low as somebody else, who obviously has quite some experience with the matter, stated)
From half of the pack n°1 I felt almost nothing (then I fell asleep before I could drink the rest...)
Also it seems that the pack n°1 isn't a very high dose, it's rather low (too low as somebody else, who obviously has quite some experience with the matter, stated)
Sansky
Elfe Mécanique
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Hi,
One ayahuasca pack contains one light trip. We think it's a little dangrous to sell higher doses. So if you share one pack with two, the change is there that you won't feel a thing.
For more question about ayahuasca please email us at [email:3c1v3p6s][email protected][/email:3c1v3p6s]
One ayahuasca pack contains one light trip. We think it's a little dangrous to sell higher doses. So if you share one pack with two, the change is there that you won't feel a thing.
For more question about ayahuasca please email us at [email:3c1v3p6s][email protected][/email:3c1v3p6s]
tryptonaut
Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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I absolutely agree with that strategy - not enough of a certain psychedelic is always better than too much. The little bit of what I've seen from ayahuasca has told me it could be really mind-blowing. I've decided better not to do it without guidance from an experienced shaman (and btw not having to do the preparation oneself is also desirable, it's a lot of work...)
Doctorcito
Neurotransmetteur
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- 8/11/04
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Hello AzariusSanne,
Consider the following accounts:
Dimitrip did write on 15/03/2004:
silmendil did write on 04/01/2005:
By contrast, with the same amount of Banisteriopsis caapi and Psychotria viridis than silmendil, telodo had an intense, fully visionary journey (see his report in this thread). Yet, according to him, he also prepared a second brew with one ounce (28 g) of harmel (Peganum harmala seeds) [a crazy dose, imo] and drank it before the ayahuasca tea (apparently telodo believed there's no plants with MAOI activity in ayahuasca!)
When considered together, these reports consistently point to one fact: the amount of B. caapi in your packs is insufficient to catalyze a visionary experience in many people. And this comes as no surprise: with the cielo variety, the correct average amount of caapi vine is 50 g, i.e. some 60% more!! (for informed discussions about this point, see the Ayahuasca Forums).
You could reply you have checked your caapi-containing packs on yourself and/or a couple a friends and it did work. It can even be true. But it is blatantly false on a larger sample, for the following reason: harmine, the main alkaloid of B. caapi, which is a very potent MAO-A inhibitor, is also extremely sensitive to individual liver metabolic status. This means harmine is transformed in the liver (mainly in its weakly active metabolite harmol) by a couple of enzymes that are notoriously known for their wide interindividual genetic and epigenetic variations. And if harmine is too quickly metabolized, then it fails to protect DMT from deamination by MAO-A in the liver, and the brew is a dud one.
The 50 g amount is ok for about 85% of people, i.e. those who are either slow or rapid (the majority) harmine metabolizers. Ultrarapid metabolizers (there are interethnic variations, but it can represent up to 15% of Spaniards) need higher doses, near 80 g.
Now, let's consider your "safety" argument ("We think it's a little dangrous to sell higher doses").
From a safety point of view, a subthreshold tea is worse than a plainly efficient one because it incites those who don't give up (I suppose it's not the kind of safety you had in mind) to increase doses the next time. Without adequate knowledge, and numerous members of this board are desperately badly informed on ayahuasca, they likely will increase doses of both plants when only one truly needs to be in larger amounts, and furthermore the safest one: the quantity of B. caapi can easily be doubled or tripled without problem. Yet if one simultaneously increases the amount of DMT-containing plant, what you are pretending to avoid (a too strong experience) precisely will happen. And that's not speculation: at least one member already has planned to make a brew with twice the regular amount of a DMT-containing plant (Mhrb in this case).
More informed people could also think that your safety argument is just a smoke screen: selling packs that give dud brews may before all appear as a way to make more profit (I am sure your answer will dispel this unsettling interpretation).
If you want to gain credibility as vendor of ayahuasca plants, your Ayahuasca pack should contain: Banisteriopsis caapi, 50 g and Psychotria viridis, 40 g (30 g is a bit scanty).
All the other packs are not ayahuasca, especially when there is no caapi vine in them: not only is it a misnomer, but it shows a colonialist-like disrespect for Quechua language and the Indians who speak it. Aya = dead or spirit [e.g. ayapampa means cemetery], huasca = rope or liana). They should then be properly called "Ayahuasca analogue pack".
To conclude, I want to precise two things:
1) I am a scholar, a researcher, and I have no vexed interests in any commercial activity implying ayahuasca (plant selling, retreats, tours, sessions, etc.)
2) Ayahuasca, like sea diving, is much safer and richer in group, with a minimum of shared rules/codes, that form a ritual.
Best regards, and happy new year!
Doctorcito
Consider the following accounts:
Dimitrip did write on 15/03/2004:
Comment: "pack #2" = "Ayahuasca [sic] Pack 2. Contains banisteriopsis caapi, 30 g and jurema preta (mimosa hostilis), 9 g. 1 pack - € 12.50" (quoted from Azarius.net)
silmendil did write on 04/01/2005:
Comment: Pack #1 was used = "Ayahuasca Pack 1. Contains banisteriopsis caapi, 30 g and psychotria viridis, 30 g. 1 pack - € 20.00" (quoted from Azarius.net)
By contrast, with the same amount of Banisteriopsis caapi and Psychotria viridis than silmendil, telodo had an intense, fully visionary journey (see his report in this thread). Yet, according to him, he also prepared a second brew with one ounce (28 g) of harmel (Peganum harmala seeds) [a crazy dose, imo] and drank it before the ayahuasca tea (apparently telodo believed there's no plants with MAOI activity in ayahuasca!)
When considered together, these reports consistently point to one fact: the amount of B. caapi in your packs is insufficient to catalyze a visionary experience in many people. And this comes as no surprise: with the cielo variety, the correct average amount of caapi vine is 50 g, i.e. some 60% more!! (for informed discussions about this point, see the Ayahuasca Forums).
You could reply you have checked your caapi-containing packs on yourself and/or a couple a friends and it did work. It can even be true. But it is blatantly false on a larger sample, for the following reason: harmine, the main alkaloid of B. caapi, which is a very potent MAO-A inhibitor, is also extremely sensitive to individual liver metabolic status. This means harmine is transformed in the liver (mainly in its weakly active metabolite harmol) by a couple of enzymes that are notoriously known for their wide interindividual genetic and epigenetic variations. And if harmine is too quickly metabolized, then it fails to protect DMT from deamination by MAO-A in the liver, and the brew is a dud one.
The 50 g amount is ok for about 85% of people, i.e. those who are either slow or rapid (the majority) harmine metabolizers. Ultrarapid metabolizers (there are interethnic variations, but it can represent up to 15% of Spaniards) need higher doses, near 80 g.
Now, let's consider your "safety" argument ("We think it's a little dangrous to sell higher doses").
From a safety point of view, a subthreshold tea is worse than a plainly efficient one because it incites those who don't give up (I suppose it's not the kind of safety you had in mind) to increase doses the next time. Without adequate knowledge, and numerous members of this board are desperately badly informed on ayahuasca, they likely will increase doses of both plants when only one truly needs to be in larger amounts, and furthermore the safest one: the quantity of B. caapi can easily be doubled or tripled without problem. Yet if one simultaneously increases the amount of DMT-containing plant, what you are pretending to avoid (a too strong experience) precisely will happen. And that's not speculation: at least one member already has planned to make a brew with twice the regular amount of a DMT-containing plant (Mhrb in this case).
More informed people could also think that your safety argument is just a smoke screen: selling packs that give dud brews may before all appear as a way to make more profit (I am sure your answer will dispel this unsettling interpretation).
If you want to gain credibility as vendor of ayahuasca plants, your Ayahuasca pack should contain: Banisteriopsis caapi, 50 g and Psychotria viridis, 40 g (30 g is a bit scanty).
All the other packs are not ayahuasca, especially when there is no caapi vine in them: not only is it a misnomer, but it shows a colonialist-like disrespect for Quechua language and the Indians who speak it. Aya = dead or spirit [e.g. ayapampa means cemetery], huasca = rope or liana). They should then be properly called "Ayahuasca analogue pack".
To conclude, I want to precise two things:
1) I am a scholar, a researcher, and I have no vexed interests in any commercial activity implying ayahuasca (plant selling, retreats, tours, sessions, etc.)
2) Ayahuasca, like sea diving, is much safer and richer in group, with a minimum of shared rules/codes, that form a ritual.
Best regards, and happy new year!
Doctorcito
Snapinho
Elfe Mécanique
- Inscrit
- 22/9/04
- Messages
- 394
I've always been convinced never to take Ayahuasca alone, not even just with friends, but indeed with an experienced shaman. Not true?
I mean, I haven't had enough courage (or better yet, no friends with enough courage
) to try it but that's the #1 thing I wouldn't think lightly of.
Of all the 'heavy' psychoactives out there, I would try Ketamine, DMT or Salvia before Ayahuasca...
Or am I mistaken??
I mean, I haven't had enough courage (or better yet, no friends with enough courage
) to try it but that's the #1 thing I wouldn't think lightly of. Of all the 'heavy' psychoactives out there, I would try Ketamine, DMT or Salvia before Ayahuasca...
Or am I mistaken??
