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Activism and Detachment

  • Auteur de la discussion Auteur de la discussion Forkbender
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Forkbender

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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I seem to have an inner struggle. On the one hand I believe that there are many things dealt with in the wrong way in this world either by general consensus in democratically elected parliaments or by tyrannical dictators. I believe that people must become active and demand their rights in the face of state oppression. At the same time I am thoroughly convinced that there are always problems and that focussing on problems only makes them worse. We should instead detach ourselves from the problem in order to transcend it. The problem I am facing now (and need to transcend) is how to be active politically AND transcend problems. Is it possible to be detached from the oppression of society's conformity and at the same time fighting against inequality? Is a transcendental activism possible?
 
One cant fight the game by playing the game .
 
^Exactly.

So how to do it? By showing that it is a game and trusting that people will start seeing that there is so much more joy to be found if they all know that it is just a game? Or will we then see that people will just play harder?
 
Todays sermon :-

Part of the game i play is to try to get people to think . To think about mushroom demos being futile ego masturbation from loosers . People who are just playing the game . Personaly i think that they come on the same level as "pacifists" and budists = evil nazi scum who we should napalm . People who are prepared to play their roll in a game by just sitting and watching other people suffer and theyrby encourage it and at the same time they talk about peace and freedom . The same as demos for cannabis , why do our troops have bayonets , land mines , cluster bombs and napalm and why dont we just get rid of the ego wanking parasitic fuckers . Imagine hitlers men slaughtering the jews and at the same time hitler sits back in luxury and talks about peace , freedom and pacifism .

We have to find efective ways of changing things , what we have been doing up till now was at best a waste of time , we just played into the hands of big brother . Did his job for him and fucked ourselves up even more .

This is the reason that i started the spirituality , sinners corner , ego death , legalisation and other threads . To get people to think . To think what is 2012 ? What does it mean ? Its symbolic for the things we have to do to save the planet from bush , polution ...... ourselves . Its suposed to represent a new way , a change in human consciousness = a mass ego death = we change ourselves so that we can carry our responsibilitys and stop punishing our selves / the planet .

What are you all going to do ? Sit and wait with a beer in one hand , a fag in the other and yer dick in another and think that one morning ...... zap...... a magic solution comes our way , maybe from out of a cornflakes packet ????? Or the fucking evil hippy solution "its OK it will just happen" . Or the budist / pacifist ( = murdering war mongers ) solution "just sit and watch it happen , who gives a fuck it isnt me" .......... while living their rich middle class crass hippy lives . Or are we just going to sit talking soap bubbles , ........ like we have been up till now , blame other people and keep blowing tabaco smoke in other peoples faces ?????
 
Is a transcendental activism possible?

*waves to God*

Nice reply ;)

I have been thinking about this thing that has been happening around the globe and involves hundreds, sometimes thousands of people, meditating at the same time. Apparently, this influences crime numbers (lowering them) at the places where it is done.

If this works, and if we all know that meditation REALLY starts to make sense while loaded, how many people would we need, loaded on shrooms or aya together, meditating?

Just a weird daydream I guess...

Or?

It could be called transcendental activism Xtreme;)
 
Interesting thoughts, i think we're all members of the same club facing the same problem, at least that's how i feel it.

I've been watching a lot of youtube videos today, including one in which terence mckenna calls for us to wake up and be conscious, to stop consuming our culture and start making our culture...the video has been viewed over a 100.000 times. Still, the information overload and the ubiquitiousness (sorry for using such a word) of mainstream culture still prevents many people from starting to think consciously, think for themselves instead of going with the flow of the mainstream. Most people are way too busy making the money they think they need to live a comfortable life, it basically takes all of their time, except for when they unwind/relax and consciously are not acting consciously :-)

This is not everyone of course, theres a lot of inspiring people around, and joining forces with them would be the best start i think...

Another thing is that there are so many societies, or better said, society can be oppressing in different ways. Like i just said, the oppression by mainstream culture is a global problem, but oppression by a political system like a dictatorship in Birma is of a completely different order. To make a statement in these kind of situations or protest is at the very least dangerous, people basically have no choice. I think instead of Ghandhi, HC could also have said the Dalai Lama; he encounters problems always according to the traditional buddhist view: he doens't judge the criminals, he shows respect for them, true respect coming from the heart. This seems detachment to me, its a very particular way of dealing with problems, and for those who follow the dharma there is no other way i suppose. And it is not without activism although others (those not afraid of using violence) may disagree...

Well, it's a large text, hope it shines more light on the subject though.
 
Heheh, I was thinking all of this last night intensely. The hippie idea of 'lead through example' has failed...

I mean, it seems to me that you contradict yourself GOD, saying that 2012 will be a massive ego death for the world, but you don't say how it will happen -- or how we can make it happen. You call us out for waiting on our butts yet say that we should do exactly that, that 2012 will solve it.

I like the idea of meditation, though. DC worked well enough for me to think that there might be something to it. I'll think about it and research it more.

Also, I must play the devil's advocate. What if there is no hope? What if we're doomed, if not from nuclear annihilation, then by environmental destruction?
 
Rymmen a dit:
Also, I must play the devil's advocate. What if there is no hope? What if we're doomed, if not from nuclear annihilation, then by environmental destruction?

We can always go out with grace.
 
Also, I must play the devil's advocate. What if there is no hope? What if we're doomed, if not from nuclear annihilation, then by environmental destruction?

Well aren't all those things part of the consequence of history when you think about it? A lot of environmental problems are related to us, humankind, developing all these technologies. Nuclear weaponry is also a direct consequence of that.

What this means is that if you believe that history happened for a purpose and is leading to 'something' (probably unimaginable for us at this stage of history) then the problems we are facing now, are to be expected and somehow, something will emerge from our species to counter those problems just in time. Maybe global acceptance of psychedelics will bring that moment, maybe another comet that destroys three quarters of life as we know it will bring that moment, maybe something else like an AI developing out of the quantum computers that are slowly rising up out of the sea of innovations that our scientists have been fishing from all those centuries, will eventually force it upon us.
 
Forkbender a dit:
Rymmen a dit:
Also, I must play the devil's advocate. What if there is no hope? What if we're doomed, if not from nuclear annihilation, then by environmental destruction?

We can always go out with grace.
Or in a fiery blast.
 
HeartCore a dit:
What this means is that if you believe that history happened for a purpose and is leading to 'something' (probably unimaginable for us at this stage of history) then the problems we are facing now, are to be expected and somehow, something will emerge from our species to counter those problems just in time.
Why?

Also, the answer that I keep coming back to is that, indeed, people need to experience ego death. They have to stop feeling the need to 'progress' by destroying their environment and causing pain to their environment. If we would all learn to love nature for its beauty, as I have since my ego death, then maybe we'd be alright. If we stopped wanting to continually keep the lights on, but instead see the stars at night, maybe we'd be alright. If we stopped always trying to make a buck by continually transporting goods, oppressing people and taking shortcuts with our beautiful environment, maybe we'd be alright.

But shit, I can't say I see that happening.
 
embracing psychedelics will always be something that is part of a real small minority. it has been like this since ever. in the tribes, was everyone a shaman ?
if we want EVERYONE to join us, i really don't think that's the way to go. remember that psychedelics and understanding of the human mind is a choice WE have made, let's not try to make everyone oblige to that.
 
daytripper a dit:
embracing psychedelics will always be something that is part of a real small minority. it has been like this since ever. in the tribes, was everyone a shaman ?
if we want EVERYONE to join us, i really don't think that's the way to go. remember that psychedelics and understanding of the human mind is a choice WE have made, let's not try to make everyone oblige to that.
Is there another way for people to stop fucking their world and each other over?

It's like many people say, "Education is key." Some just don't realize that they require the greatest education; that of enlightenment. If you see another way to educate these people, let me know.
 
daytripper a dit:
embracing psychedelics will always be something that is part of a real small minority. it has been like this since ever. in the tribes, was everyone a shaman ?
if we want EVERYONE to join us, i really don't think that's the way to go. remember that psychedelics and understanding of the human mind is a choice WE have made, let's not try to make everyone oblige to that.

Two words:

Critical mass
 
I believe that while we don't act as One. One organism, one self, one counsciousness, that WE are, our existance and evolution as counscious beings, is doomed.

With this I mean: truth, authenticity, no coverture, loving the self/universe and union with all the existance. Because... we're one existance...

Well, sorry if the text below is too long, but it worths reading.
And it's a very simple, beautifull and fancy way, to help our brothers that are deep-rooted in their sleeping counsciousness and awareness, to wake-up of their (as god says) ego-masturbation.

"There was never a time when the world began, because it goes
round and round like a circle, and there is no place on a circle where it
begins. Look at my watch, which tells the time; it goes round, and so the
world repeats itself again and again. But just as the hour-hand of the
watch goes up to twelve and down to six, so, too, there is day and night,
waking and sleeping, living and dying, summer and winter. You can't
have any one of these without the other, because you wouldn't be able to
know what black is unless you had seen it side-by-side with white, or
white unless side-by-side with black.

"In the same way, there are times when the world is, and times when
it isn't, for if the world went on and on without rest for ever and ever, it
would get horribly tired of itself. It comes and it goes. Now you see it;
now you don't. So because it doesn't get tired of itself, it always comes
back again after it disappears. It's like your breath: it goes in and out, in
and out, and if you try to hold it in all the time you feel terrible. It's also
like the game of hide-and-seek, because it's always fun to find new
ways of hiding, and to seek for someone who doesn't always hide in the
same place.

"God also likes to play hide-and-seek, but because there is nothing
outside God, he has no one but himself to play with. But he gets over
this difficulty by pretending that he is not himself. This is his way of
hiding from himself. He pretends that he is you and I and all the people
in the world, all the animals, all the plants, all the rocks, and all the
stars. In this way he has strange and wonderful adventures, some of
which are terrible and frightening. But these are just like bad dreams,
for when he wakes up they will disappear.

"Now when God plays hide and pretends that he is you and I, he does
it so well that it takes him a long time to remember where and how he
hid himself. But that's the whole fun of it—just what he wanted to do.
He doesn't want to find himself too quickly, for that would spoil the
game. That is why it is so difficult for you and me to find out that we
are God in disguise, pretending not to be himself. But when the game
has gone on long enough, all of us will wake up, stop pretending, and
remember that we are all one single Self—the God who is all that there
is and who lives for ever and ever.

"Of course, you must remember that God isn't shaped like a person.
People have skins and there is always something outside our skins. If
there weren't, we wouldn't know the difference between what is inside
and outside our bodies. But God has no skin and no shape because there
isn't any outside to him. [With a sufficiently intelligent child, I illustrate
this with a Möbius strip—a ring of paper tape twisted once in such a
way that it has only one side and one edge.] The inside and the outside
of God are the same. And though I have been talking about God as 'he'
and not 'she,' God isn't a man or a woman. I didn't say 'it' because we
usually say 'it' for things that aren't alive.

"God is the Self of the world, but you can't see God for the same
reason that, without a mirror, you can't see your own eyes, and you
certainly can't bite your own teeth or look inside your head. Your self is
that cleverly hidden because it is God hiding.

"You may ask why God sometimes hides in the form of horrible
people, or pretends to be people who suffer great disease and pain.
Remember, first, that he isn't really doing this to anyone but himself.
Remember, too, that in almost all the stories you enjoy there have to be
bad people as well as good people, for the thrill of the tale is to find out
how the good people will get the better of the bad. It's the same as when
we play cards. At the beginning of the game we shuffle them all into a
mess, which is like the bad things in the world, but the point of the
game is to put the mess into good order, and the one who does it best is
the winner. Then we shuffle the cards once more and play again, and so
it goes with the world."

Alan Watts in "The Book On The Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are"

Love
 
Forkbender a dit:
The problem I am facing now (and need to transcend) is how to be active politically AND transcend problems.

What do you think politics is?

Forkbender a dit:
Is it possible to be detached from the oppression of society's conformity and at the same time fighting against inequality? Is a transcendental activism possible?

Yes, you can add your contribution. We humans must pass the torch to the next generation with enhanced enlightment, knowledge, understanding, tolerance and respect.

It can be done through speech, writing, painting, music and every art form we know.
 
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