parallel dimensions, universe of the mind, time travelling
#1
who has something to say or share about these topics from your own experiences, somehow i get information through my dreams while i am still awake and through my trips while i am not here, the powers are to strong for a mortal human being, how far can you go before you never come back into your body, vehicle of your spirit, soul, mind or universe, am i getting through or am i already there, i try not to comprehend, maybe you do?

Green love
Sapato...
the dragonfly was showing the way to an old oaktree, the old man silently sang with his hands towards the sky, he stood up, dancing with his shadow in a circle of a magical scene, suddenly the owl flew away, his shadow dissapeared in the night
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#2
I've been to a point a few times were I suddenly panicked because I thought I might never be able to come back if I went any further. It was on shrooms always (I can reach that point best when I drink pure cocoa with the shrooms).

I think that you could cross the border to hyperspace and return (many people have reportedly done so, mostly with DMT), but I never had the courage to do so - my ego panicked and brought me back. Someday I hope I'll be able to go further. With shrooms I think you need mental training like meditation to let go that far - a high dose of smoked or injected DMT probably leaves you no choice and catapults you out there if you let go or not...
The Gnomes have learned a new way to say hoooray!
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#3
How about having these kind of experiences with just a little dose or no dose at all. Your spirit getting triggered and you have the control, why would you wanna loose it? Nobody does, i guess. It seems to me that all substances (i am talking about naturals) are a tool to get you to reach some kind of frequence or state where you can communicate with, transform in to, become something or someone else. I am sure that a loth is possible, you could even go mad if you see it as a joke. The powers (whatever it may be, God, your own mind, the spirit world of beings, a parallel universe or just a chemical reaction?) can use you as a playing ball, just before you loose it. It could be death itself, no one knows.
I like to leave things open, like doors that open in my mind.
I am going to sleep now and maybe i encounter someone special.
Why not, its my own illusion of freedom.

Green love
Sapato...
the dragonfly was showing the way to an old oaktree, the old man silently sang with his hands towards the sky, he stood up, dancing with his shadow in a circle of a magical scene, suddenly the owl flew away, his shadow dissapeared in the night
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#4
When sober and meditating I can really well let go of my body, even with the intention to not return, but I have returned every time. It's time for another Salvia experience, perhaps this weekend ..
MUSIC FOR THE MIND
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#5
oh man, there was this one summer that i knew so well that everything was just a dream, and that i could see so many dimensions at once, that i even wrote a book about it! (like 200 pages)! and that book was just about that summer, but i wrote another 5 books about the same subject.

That summer was just a confirmation , the dimensions and time gaps and so on i discovered all that even before.

And no drugs...

Alice :wink:
We're all mad here!
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#6
why think that you leave your body? yes it feels that way, but why wouldn't all these astral/causal worlds be IN your body. the bible says; your body is the temple of god.

when you travel to other worlds, you actiually need a master to guide you. every far spiritually progressed man would say that. it is not the danger of not coming back. you are so attached to this world that you definately will come back. it is that these other worlds, have heavens and hells. the hells will look like heaven and the heavens will look like hell.

in those worlds you don't have the power to discriminate, for you are not familliar enough with it.

the fear not to come back is soo not realistic (when you see the bigger picture). it;s just ego. but it is very hard to lose that fear.
reality is for people who can't handle drugs
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#7
but some don't come back, right?
they become strangers to this world, the world of the sane and the common sense, etc.
when we were dreaming awake me and my friend that summer we could feel that we were going " insane", to a point of no return, really, we would go and not come back, we would be living in the dream, or who knows where you go. i didn't want to go, because i have a child, and i wanted to stay to take care of her... Smile
otherwise i guess i would be gone by now Smile i don't know where too, but i would be gone...


alice
We're all mad here!
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#8
sorry, i misunderstood what you meant with ''not coming back''.

yes, that is why you need a master/teacher to guide you. so you won't go crazy and stay that way.

only with wanting to have a master to guide you there are two problems;
- we western people have trouble to have blind faith in others. the only way your teacher can protect you is by your faith in him, that gives him the power to protect you.
- a lot of masters (well, who call themself masters/guru's) of a plane or world, aren't skilled enough and powerfull enough to guide a disciple through a world, and thus sometimes it goes wrong.
reality is for people who can't handle drugs
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#9
lol

i don't know what i mean by "not coming back" because i did come back.

i don't know... it was a feeling of "taking off", we ended up eating onions to return to earth - because i had heard that onions ground us - we felt we were getting into a dream dimension and would just leave (physically leave to some other part of the planet, withou any specific plans, just go...)

we didn't have a guru, i hate that, why shouldn't i be my own guru? i don't want someone else leading my experiencies, i like to discover things myself and with friends, together at the same time :wink:

but i totally respect that other people like to do it in other ways, like with a guru. just not me. once there was a guy in a very trippy squat party who started giving me a lecture, and i told him "sorry, i don't want to know what you think i should do in my life" because it really felt horrible that he should be projecting his experience on me...

anyway...
Smile
alice
We're all mad here!
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#10
Siq a écrit :When sober and meditating I can really well let go of my body, even with the intention to not return, but I have returned every time. It's time for another Salvia experience, perhaps this weekend ..


Goed bezig
the dragonfly was showing the way to an old oaktree, the old man silently sang with his hands towards the sky, he stood up, dancing with his shadow in a circle of a magical scene, suddenly the owl flew away, his shadow dissapeared in the night
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#11
alice,

i meant things differently. also the thing about ''guru''.
but apparently i'm not capable of putting it in the right words.
reality is for people who can't handle drugs
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#12
More possibilities, i never really know and i realize that i will never know, open and sceptic at the same time, i am. Never sure because if i was sure than i wouldn't question things and maybe never learn or evolve. Like the ecological philsopher that always seemed to feel good when nature welcomed him every single time he came back. Surrounded by the owls, embraced by the mist, talking to a deer and laying in the grass like a child that misses his true home. Sometimes i see him and than i get a smile on my face when other people see him too. Or i see someone just like him.
Encounters.

Green Love
Sapato...
the dragonfly was showing the way to an old oaktree, the old man silently sang with his hands towards the sky, he stood up, dancing with his shadow in a circle of a magical scene, suddenly the owl flew away, his shadow dissapeared in the night
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#13
forest,

maybe i just didn't understand, nevermind, all is fine.

Smile
alice
We're all mad here!
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#14
ohh Alice my baby...how is your summertime going dear, I was miss ya come back your home!lol

What happens during a psychedelic expedition is all a matter of speculation. There is no certain way to pinpoint what EXACTLY is going on but you do get a sense of some basic things. You definitely leave your body and wherever you are headed your ego is NOT allowed, so the compounds first rid you of this nasty disease (Yes I categorize the human ego as a disease).

I have found that people with large inflated egos have a lot of problems with psychedelics, they are so attached to their ego that when the compounds dissolve this ego, they feel like they are dying, which immediately starts your expedition off on a bad foot and unless you have an experienced tripper around you could go into a downward spiral into your own nightmarish thoughts. This is the reason why I believe that most psychedelics are not accepted into western society and culture. I mean we have these native tribes in the Amazon that have basic knowledge of bio-molecular science which they claim to have gained from “nature
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#15
I read the tibetian book of dead lately. It explains the road people travel during and after life. From what i understand everything is an illusion, a product of our karma. Every reality is not existing.
It makes me doubt the importance of information from other 'dimensions'. In the end it is us humans that produce these thoughts and forms. Never can time and space be broken by our minds.
My experience says to me we can see the mirror of truth, never clear. We make entities and dimensions because that's what we are. The one truth that keeps us being is the one who induces insight of the mirror of truth. Even if all people start taking psychedelic drugs wisely, no wisdom can be seen that is not allready here. Time is the master Wink
I'm wrong and it's beautiful
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#16
i agree on a lot of things you just said, petfles. the things are here in a limited way, because we create them and keep them alive with our thoughts, but in the end they all don't matter. one illusion follows the other.
reality is for people who can't handle drugs
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#17
Yeah so even if your bored off your ass there is never a dull moment Big Grin
Any concept we have of an afterlife is ultimately flawed, it's going to be unlike anything we could have ever imagined. Since our concept of death only exists while we're alive it's just as much part of the illusion as anything else. So who can say this journey ends with the death of the body? If only our damn cells didn't oxidize so quickly, or if we learned to slow them down with suspended animation, (g'head google it).

Well what can I say other than that life is a trip? Death is just another part of the fun, frankly i'm curious and get off on the fact that my days are numbered and that i'll get to have my turn. So I wanna die slow, I just hope my brain is undamaged for that last 6-10 minutes. I don't think death is like prelife, we never existed prior to birth and so we had no impact in the universe (no matter how small it may seem) until after.

I could see how our actions now could relate to how death might be. With the diversity of life and individuals (no two are the same) death may be an individual experience too. However at the sametime a giant gathering that represents the diversity of biological existence that activly participates in global conciousness.

This last paragraph is merely speculation. A hopeful one compared to nothingness.
A log of my Journey with Salvia
http://farenx.blogspot.com/
*The point of life is to taste the fruit and savor their juices
*If it grows in nature on it's own it will certainly grown @ home Big Grin
*I said no to drugs but they didn't listen
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#18
Farenx a écrit :Yeah so even if your bored off your ass there is never a dull moment Big Grin

we never existed prior to birth and so we had no impact in the universe (no matter how small it may seem) until after.


i don't mean to be a smart ass here, but er... how do you know we didn't exist prior to birth, i mean who knows that for a fact? we just don't remember, right? we don't remember anything before we were born or even during the first years of our present life (and those few years of unconsciousness would be enough, by the way, to make us forget everything about a previous life).

i like to believe in reicarnation, it inspires me, it's poetic, it gives hope...

alice
:wink:
We're all mad here!
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#19
[quote="hi":21jhxwpd]ohh Alice my baby...how is your summertime going dear, I was miss ya come back your home!lol - Smile hi baby!

(Yes I categorize the human ego as a disease). - no doubt about that, we're all human, we all suffer from this horrible disease, some more and some less, but we definitely should strive to cure ourselves from it

I have found that people with large inflated egos have a lot of problems with psychedelics, they are so attached to their ego that when the compounds dissolve this ego, - yeah, they freak!!!! Big Grin

. I mean we have these native tribes in the Amazon that have basic knowledge of bio-molecular science which they claim to have gained from “nature
We're all mad here!
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#20
yeah this is one monster topic! In fact i dunno where to even start...

First of all i just wanted to say that i had a great reading with your posts and that i hope that i will be at the same level...

My starting point of all this is the extra-body experience:
for me, especially when you're taking psychoactives, the extra-bpdy experience is more of a INTRA-body experience, i think it's the unconscious that is simply let loose in some way or another. I found that quite of a suggestive idea with the thought of the unconscious as a chaotic cauldron where perceptions, expereinces, thoughts, images, personal time-cause relations, mnestic patterns, some sort of idea of spirit identity, ecc... are all mixed up, similarly to Freud concept of unconscious, and from which we can obtain experiences which may positively or negatively influence your life. I'm saying this without having done high doses of 'shrooms like some of you did, so i never actually experienced the "out-of-body" sensation, but i kinda formed my idea...
There tons of examples i could give but i'll simply tell you a few anectodes.
First of all, the dream state. There are many forms of dreaming, lucid, normal, hypnosis (sort of), and once i kinda experienced (sober) this weird state of being in between dreaming and reality; i remember clearly that i could clearly see the surroundings of my bedroom, but not only i couldn't grip the continuous thoughts and images that i personally did'nt create or WANT TO create but at a sort of point i was trying to say "help" but i simply couldn't... I wasn't in control and i was scared; you simply can't control a matrix as vast and complex as the unconscious, for us he's a sort of teacher that can transmit useful things but can also punish the ignorance or arrogance of his pupils.
Similar thing happened when i had 2.5 grams dried of mexican mushrooms, i had these short-term visuals, but most of all i couldn't define thoughts. Let me explain this, i was listening to some music and i tried to direct my thoughts in creating a mental image of a band playing that music, but i couldn't... I was continuosly redirected somewhere else like thoughts of colors, people, situations. All this not in a negative sense, but positive: i was contemplating the unconscious in one of his forms.

Regarding our surrounding world:
i don't personally believe much that we're part of a dream, in a tight sense, because that would mainly mean that everything is a product of our unconscious, so in a certain way if we had control of our or of THE unconscious we would bend reality. That wouldn't explain the role of dreaming and psychedelic states, except if not as "clues" of the true nature of reality. I think they're more than just that. I sometimes have the sensation that they can touch us better in the soul.
In fact i believe in the existence of a uber-reality, a metaphysical plane. But not in strictly outer-world sense as paranormal phenomena, ghosts or anyting "not human", but in the sense of a "gathering of souls"... I think that the soul exists and one example is the power of music. Music touches your soul, if you think a piece of music is nothing more than a physical phenomenon, the repetition of sounds and at certain pitches and with certain tones, but how the notes collide and create along with other things a piece of music in its entirety with its own very soul is fascinating because music seems to touch us all in different ways...
Take techno-music for instance: once i thought that they were far away of being considered proper music because most of the time the instruments weren't even played by people but by computers, so they couldn't have soul since there wasn't the soul of the player behind it. But growin' up i found that i was only fossilized to this idea: listen to "mescaline" of 1200 mics for instance; the music is really simple and the riffs and chords are the same, but the way the main rythm attacks and the music in its integrity makes this a very driving piece of music...
Not only this nut i think there will always be a metaphysical plane: in fact imagine that in a far future we find the theory, equation behind the universe or how it originated or even... a theory that's the proof of God's existence! If we stopped at this we would never understand why the theory is like this or the soul behind which solving this theory/equation the universe originates.

Timetravel:
this is one hell of a topic, since it can be seen in so many ways and there's still so much talk about it! I sincerely don't have a clue if it will be possibile, i can say that it is possible in the unconscious since laws of space-time and all other laws of logic aren't valid since any experience or image lives in the unconscious in a dimension of non time and non space and simply think how we can easily be projected to the past or have what we might think is a glimpse of the future in certain trips.
But once i thought while i was studying nietzsche: what if, for instance, all that is happening, has happened and will happen is all part of a unique phenomena, time fragment and so it's still evolving and so actually there's no time at all, it's all a unique moment, and time as we concieved it is just a way to help us cope and give reality a scheme to follow?
If that would be possible, we could find in a analysis of this fragment (the whole humanity's history plus this very moment?) the traces of the future and predict what will happen similarly to what nietzsche thought with the concepy of "eternal comeback", saying that what happened in the past and what's happening now are or will be the repetition of certain situations that the "ubermensch" can understand and be conscious of, understanding what will happen in the future so time will have no significance for them...

Sorry for the long post, i have much other stuff in mind but i don't want to bore you; thanks for reading!
"The sum of intelligence on earth is constant, the population is growing... THEY'RE NOT LIES!"
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#21
What you write about the metaphysical plane, the tranportive effect of music/paintings and the time fragment we live in, i understand and feel the same.
I think the theory should be more simple though.
When i was above all life using salvia i saw all my possible places and choices. It's beyond words but i didn't want to see it (yet), and shouldn't. Returning to my body was the most strange thing ever. I went inside my eyes again and tried to move my arm but time stopped. Like a cd repeating the same second over and over again.. Time and life are a fragment of reality.
I see it like this, for now. Our soul wants to escape, it feels captivated here. To keep our balance we dream and escape reality for some part of the day. Our soul can freely do what it wants. Some part of our ego will know bits and pieces of other lives/times/dimensions and use it. It is like a collaboration of souls and minds on many different levels. Why we live this life is because this is the most important reality, there is something we have to experience not possible sometime and -where else.
The strange thing i sometimes feel we can wake up in an other life and believe it is just another day of our life.. This is what salvia seems to show, you accept every reality because we recognize it like it's ours.
I'm wrong and it's beautiful
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#22
Interesting thread here, and a topic that fascinates me ...

Can anyone here who has experienced an "out-of-body" type of trip, or one where they felt they were in the presence of different types of beings, or one where they felt that time did not exist ... tell me what entheogen you were using, and at what dosage?

thanks! Big Grin
the only thing standing between me and complete happiness is reality
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#23
yah i feel like time doesn't exist, at least not the way we were told to perceive it, but no drugs here... like time gaps are amazing things that people mostly do not notice. they just think 'oh well that was strange' and they go on with their lives, or think ' funny coincidence' and that's all.

examples:
a strange guy i noticed on the sidewalk moving like some kind of dancing snake and wearing a space suit or something, and when i passed him by on my bike he was almost getting into a bookshop. 2 hours later i passed by that street again, and there he was, still in the same place, almost getting into the bookshop.

once a girlfriend of mine (we had smoked haxixe, one of our first trips, we were 17), she told me she was having the very strange feeling that she had lived that moment before, and i got the goose bumps, and she said maybe the feeling was not that she had lived that moment but that it was supposed to happen, and then she went on saying what she felt. we had this thing about writing a book, and she said 'our books are already written, but we are going to write them again, because it's already written that we are going to write them' and she also said that there was someone with us at that moment looking at us from another dimension, who had already lived that moment too, and knew everything that had happened so far, and everything that would happen from that moment on, because everything had already happened.

ok, 17 years later i was writing my first book and when i was describing this trip i got the goose bumps again, because hell, i was the one who was looking at them (us, the two girlfriends) from another dimension, and i knew everything that had happened to them and everything that would happen to them after that moment of the trip, because everything had already happened!

so i concluded that my girlfriend had found a time gap, or something, when we were 17, and she had spoken to me in the present when we were 17, which was the past when i was 34 and writing the book, but she was also speaking to me in the future when i was 17 because she was also speaking to me when i was 34!

since then i think time doesn't exist.

lucy :wink:
We're all mad here!
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#24
Nice post Alice!

When I introduced a good friend to LSD, at some point I was looking at him and at once, becoming him. No question about it, I was him, I felt him, I remembered him. I wanted to speak out to him (myself) but the moment I opened my mouth he began to speak:'O MY GOD MAN, I am you!!! I am completely you.',

This broke the magic and the moment was gone.

Another time, no drugs. I was in France, my ex wife kind played a nasty game having the effect of my hitting the streets and she running off with a milionaire and my kids. I found shelter at a good friends house. It was 1am and I was completely becoming insane, I had so much stress, I felt like I was going to explode, litereally. Then at the point I felt like I was going to collapse, the phone rang. My very good, old, friend, a wise woman who is very spiritually and NEVER calls me up, ever, is on the phone:'Hi, I felt the unstoppable urge to call you, tell me whats wrong.'.

So now I wonder why I tried to bash the movie here in the first place Wink
Install a mental antivirus: http://www.triviumeducation.com/ (it's 100% free, no strings attached)
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#25
yeah, those coincidences are great! makes you feel like you're connected! :wink:

alice
We're all mad here!
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#26
I GREATLY enjoyed reading this thread.

I personally find that psychoactives do not give the power to leave for other dimensions or great things like that. To me they are merely tools in order to better understand the inner and outerverse. Although sometimes this understanding comes in the form of an alien being babbling an unknown language yet still understandable I still feel its just how my mind chooses to process the tool.
self disoverer
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#27
I didn't have an out of body experience while on any drugs. But I had 2 when I became lucid when I was dreaming. The first time I knew I was dreaming and to test it I tried to fly. Immediately I could feel the power of flying above my village, it was very real and a very naais experience. The second time I was in a house I didn't know and I try to go through the wall, I succeeded in doing that!!! From the moment I realised to much what whas happening I was BLOW back into my body and I could feel that. When you doubt about it, you definitely come back.

I have read a lot spiritual stuff and it is not possible to not coming back because there is the Astral Matrix (a silver cord that is connected to your body, some can see it, others can't see it (I couldn't see it)).

I think that there are 2 cases you never come back and that is when you go OD while in another dimension or when you have a Near Death Experience and you decide not to come back even if you can. But most people choose to come back because we are here to learn. When you choose not to come back you will have to relive another live with the same problems you encountered (if you where an alcoholic, you will be an alcoholic in your new live as well).

This may all seems a little absurd, but I must say reading is the power of all knowledge!! ( http://www.ourultimatereality.com/ -> this book contains every knowledge you must know.)
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#28
I haven't had OBE's in this reality, meaning that my conscience is percieving this physical reality my body is bound to. But I do have had many profound Salvia Divinorum experiences.


On these experiences, I leave as only my conscience. Parting from my body in this way, to me, is no problem at all. I just let go without noticing it.

The Salvinorin leads me to a place that is visually projectable. So I can see a lot of things there, and they are dynamic and immensly beatyfull. I see a sort of world consisting of many things I cannot name, simply because I haven't seen these things in my physical form. I lately start to recognize this place, this world, as the place in which thought are being created. Not thoughts for the conscience, because my conscience can observe freely and can observe and anylize thoughts being created, but just thought and ideas for the actual, physical reality. These thoughts are visual objects. I actually see things, that are in fact (or in my perception) ideas/thoughts. These things move through a layer or a border towards reality and pop into existence as a thought.

Last time was quite interesting again, because I saw a 'thing' moving into this border and I saw/knew that this thought was a though that I'd be taking along from the Salvia world as well when I would leave .. but I also saw this thought was someone else's and it was not NOW, but it was future.

I knew that this place was unbound to time because I had already seen past in previous experiences, but now I saw a future thought/idea/memory. Funny :)

But now I'm just rambling about Salvia again, well .. it's just the tool for me to see ...


But boundness to time .. ? We are in with our phisycal perception and body. Things like gravity and nedding to sit in the train for sixteen minutes before I am at my work, things like that. But I do think that outside the physical reality (places we can reach by meditation or substances) time is a whole different thing .. if not inexistent.

Also do I think that the UNconscience is a part of our body, our brain. I think that it's a tool or protocol for our conscience to connect to our body, brain and menorie and such. It is also an intersting pessesion of us, but I do think that it's bound more than our conscience. I don't see it as something we take along after life, or to other non-physical places.


After life I think we'll have some 'time' to reappraise and oversee our whole life by our conscience. This way the conscience can learn and grow. Before if needed start another life to learn some more. Perhaps if our conscience has reached a state that is fullfilled for it's potential (even conscience may be bound) it's time for the conscience to evolve, perhaps into a reality of it's own.

Well .. these are just some ideas of mine. I have many more details in my mind about this, but this post is getting way long allready .. sorry for that :)
MUSIC FOR THE MIND
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#29
There are moments, when everything is everywhere- conected layers of reality
weaved together by a meaningfull Presence.
There are moments of importance, when people feel conected, and other moments, when people feel lost .
The dreems and the sacred plants are here to remind us of our Nature.

Most of the people most of the time do not remember what they have dreamed last night. BUT when a car hit the body, crosing the street on a green light, it was not only "me" who made that body to jump just a moment before the colision.
Than me remembered all of my dreams and memories between the frames of the "here and now"..
I survived with insignificant injuries, and almost forgot what happened.
This was BEFORE trying any psichedelicks.
Than I tyied diferent plants and felt that I've already been there not just once...

seems like the expanded conciousness is how Life is dealing with the quantum engeneering
Idea
Shudhosi, budhosi, niranjanosi
sansare-maya parivarji tosi
sansare svapanam tyaya moha nidram
nigan-ma mrityor twai-sat svaroope
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#30
patilan420 a écrit :There are moments, when everything is everywhere- conected layers of reality
weaved together by a meaningfull Presence.
There are moments of importance, when people feel conected, and other moments, when people feel lost .
The dreems and the sacred plants are here to remind us of our Nature.

Most of the people most of the time do not remember what they have dreamed last night. BUT when a car hit the body, crosing the street on a green light, it was not only "me" who made that body to jump just a moment before the colision.
Than me remembered all of my dreams and memories between the frames of the "here and now"..
I survived with insignificant injuries, and almost forgot what happened.
This was BEFORE trying any psichedelicks.
Than I tyied diferent plants and felt that I've already been there not just once...

seems like the expanded conciousness is how Life is dealing with the quantum engeneering
Idea


greatly "explained", especially when considering that these cosmic feelings are so difficult to express Smile

alice
We're all mad here!
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