mantras and not-mantras

[BrainEater]

hey all!!

in my opinion this is a interesting and important topic. i would say a differentiation could be good, but first of all maybe we would have to say what is a mantra supposed to be in the first place?! well as far as i understand it it's just something you tell yourself that you want to or think you have to believe or not believe or something like that. i don't know whether this says it all, but maybe you have more ideas. so of course this is basically a very simple concept, but if you think about it, the possibilities are possibly/probably endless.

now what could a not-mantra be? hmm maybe it would simply imply a more reflected mind-space or so, because you would differentiate with the thoughts on what you would want as a mantra or not or something like that instead of simply accepting everything undifferentiatedly.
i don't want to say you should always overthink everything or so...hell no... lol i guess i just want to point at the possibility of sometimes overthink with careful purpose or so. well lol unfortunately i can't explain it very well. it's like when something or various things point towards the advantages or so of having or making a plan or many plans.
something like that...
and i can tell from experience that i sometimes struggled internally and/or externally with mantras or mantra-like thinking, hmm maybe that's why i got the idea for this topic ... so i thought it might just be something you may be want to consider. anyways...i hope it makes some sense lol

well and maybe you have some mantras or not-mantras that you would like to share.. or other ideas??
an example for a basic mantra could be: "i am" or "i am this/that etc etc..."
also i guess mantras can have many forms for example you can say it out loud or mentally or like
processing or conveying it if that's what you want to do with works of art, music, pictures, movies etc etc...
conversely it might be an idea to beware and be careful althought of course not too paranoid if at all of mantra-like thinking or so connected with what kind of mantras that maybe other persons want to impose on you or so... just saying... can't say it often enough.. some people are simply bastards... although at their core they might be nice persons etc etc...

what you think??



peace

 

[Mrboxey]

Let's make this a bit easier:

Wikipedia Time:

"
A mantra is a sound, syllable, word, or group of words that is considered capable of "creating transformation" (cf. spiritual transformation).[SUP][1][/SUP] Its use and type varies according to the school and philosophy associated with the mantra.[SUP][2][/SUP]
Mantras (Devanāgarī मन्त्&#2352 originated in the Vedic tradition of India, becoming an essential part of the Hindu tradition and a customary practice within Buddhism, Sikhism, and Jainism.
In the context of the Vedas, the term mantra refers to the entire portion which contains the texts called Rig, Yajur or Sama, that is, the metrical part as opposed to the prose Brahmana commentary. With the transition from ritualistic Vedic traditions to mystical and egalitarian Hindu schools of Yoga, Vedanta, Tantra and Bhakti, the orthodox attitude of the elite nature of mantra knowledge gave way to spiritual interpretations of mantras as a translation of the human will or desire into a form of action.
For the authors of the Hindu scriptures of the Upanishads, the syllable Om, itself constituting a mantra, represents Brahman, the godhead, as well as the whole of creation. Kūkai suggests that all sounds are the voice of the Dharmakaya Buddha — i.e. as in Hindu Upanishadic and Yogic thought, these sounds are manifestations of ultimate reality, in the sense of sound symbolism postulating that the vocal sounds of the mantra have inherent meaning independent of the understanding of the person uttering them.
Nevertheless, such understanding of what a mantra may symbolize or how it may function differs throughout the various traditions and also depends on the context in which it is written or sounded. In some instances there are multiple layers of symbolism associated with each sound, many of which are specific to particular schools of thought. For an example of such see the syllable: Om which is central to both Hindu and Buddhist traditions.
While Hindu tantra eventually came to see the letters as well as the sounds as representatives of the divine, the shift toward writing occurred when Buddhism traveled to China. Although China lacked a unifying, ecclesiastic language like Sanskrit, China achieved its cultural unity through a written language with characters that were flexible in pronunciation but more precise in meaning. The Chinese prized written language much more highly than did the Indian Buddhist missionaries, and the writing of mantras became a spiritual practice in its own right. So that whereas Brahmins had been very strict on correct pronunciation, the Chinese, and indeed other Far-Eastern Buddhists were less concerned with this than correctly writing something down. The practice of writing mantras, and copying texts as a spiritual practice, became very refined in Japan, and the writing in the Siddham script in which the Sanskrit of many Buddhist Sutras were written is only really seen in Japan nowadays. However, written mantra-repetition in Hindu practices, with Sanskrit in any number of scripts, is well-known to many sects in India as well.
Khanna (2003: p. 21) links mantras and yantras to thoughtforms:"

To see the rest:

Mantra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

so... I am not sure this is exactly what you are talking about... But I guess a not-mantra would be those sounds designed to carry you more towards the "other end of the spectrum" so to speak...

So... In conclusion... I have no idea

 

[BrainEater]

well i am not totally sure, but i guess i thought of the idea of not-mantras, because i thought i somehow noticed the notion of logics in that context. and i would say the concept of mantras is rather common in our world besides the ancient origins of it.
so i noticed something else and i don't know if it totally fits with this topic, but it at least got to do something with it...
well it's like some people seem to plan their emotional states or emotions and i just thought there is a certain insanity or so that would relatively often come with that. just thought i'd mention that...
so of course mantras can be very powerful and that's where responsability comes in, especially self-responsability.
hmm and the concept of translation...

good that you posted that wikipedia article... i thought for example the words "school of thought" might be pointing towards
something that i find rather important. because nowadays a lot of people seem to act as if what or maybe how we think doesn't matter,
but while this may be partly true, to exclusively see it like this is of course foolish. and well if you ask me, the power of thought
is what has been underestimated in a certain way even over the course of centuries.
the amazing thing is everyone can test this out for themselves... no need to believe me or so... it's about finding out what works for yourself. soo hmm yeah maybe someone got some ideas or mantras to share or just wants to talk about the subject or share their views etc ...

well one of the best general examples is probably how you can make yourself mad by telling yourself over and over again your negative
expectations or something comparable... know what i mean?? lol
i have done that too much lol and i learned that i want to learn from my mistakes and get a clearer impression on what i would personally consider to be mistakes... basically like self-realization and knowledge of self etc etc... for example like talking too much and not doing anything or maybe the other way round... mistakes are something human, right?
hmm interesting maybe everyone has their own expectation mantras or so... or at least to some extent... dunno lol a bit strange idea but probably worthwhile looking at...because if we could be aware of our own expectation state then we could change it and supposedly expectation is an influence to the experience itself, too... :Oo:
i guess it's a little bit offtopic but think for example of the "comfortably numb" masses and how a certain set of mantras, at least theoreteically might have got them there. just saying..



peace

 

[Mrboxey]

Well, in terms of mantras, it is interesting the correlation between mantras and just regular music.

it is true that every kind of music has a different effect on you. Rock can bring you up, sad music can bring you down.. Modern music is not really mantras per se, but it certainly has an effect on our consciousness.

Music can be tied deeply to memories, and as such can trigger some rather strong emotional responses. However, it doesn't always need to be tied to upbeat music = happy thoughts and downbeat music = sad thoughts... For example you can have a bad memory tied to an upbeat song, and while the memory is faded, the emotional response to when you hear the song is still very much there.

Interesting how the human mind works. Song is one of the most ancient forms of communication as well. Think about the bards of the past, they told stories in song to pass along history, and lessons as well.

So, mantras, or even just plain songs, are an interesting topic in and of themselves

 

[BrainEater]

hmmm.... i guess i agree... it's like language only can be a limitation for communication... just remembered when i was travelling in thailand a few years ago, the people there talk more like singing... and to me this means that not only what you say, but sometimes a lot more than we may think, how we say it makes the difference...
and of course music is interesting in the context, because it often means a certain message is told with more emotional charge or so... i guess you get the point...


hmm i just thought maybe the concept of experience could be connected to the concept of mantras... well because in some sense as we grow up we form a concept of experience and it could be seen like that we form a concept of mantras as well...

and maybe not-mantras could be seen as mantras, too.. maybe the difference could be the logical, felt or perceived opposit of a mantra... well i don't know how much it even makes sense to say there is something like a not-mantra lol... but well maybe as i said the word can simply be a pointer towards the logical basis of mantras...
because if you say something, that means at the same time, you are not saying something else lol...
or like by not saying something, you could be saying something... know what i mean?? :lol:
or maybe a similar meaning of mantras could be "affirmations" ... so not-mantras could possibly simply be something like "not-affirmations"... hope that makes sense lol...

so my conclusion is we can change ourselves by telling ourselves something and i am not sure whether even most people are really aware of what or how they are telling themselves something...
well we could all go on psychonautical quests to find out lol..
and maybe people would be less stressed if they would really understand themselves better or properly, because then they could probably more easily find solutions..


or yeah of course the subconscious mind... in my own experience in some sense it could indeed be compared in principle to something like a tape recorder.. it records things and then can play it...
well and i can tell you sometimes i just wished it could stop talking if you know what i mean... because i guess my subconscious mind is myself, right?? so i suppose it should do what i tell it lol...
so well i guess i am actually already on a quest to fix my subconscious mind and its mantra-tapes or so lol...
and believe me, sometimes i just wished i could instead of negativity talk simply listen to bird singing or ocean waves... :lol:



peace

 

[Mrboxey]

Well, mantras seem to be designed (maybe better wording would be "meant to") try and help people reach enlightenment. Like monks and other priests of the middle east. Similarly, most religions have mantras and songs which convey a story, and are supposed to have a higher meaning and eventually lead you on the path to God, or to heaven, or to Nirvana, or to the astral plane..

We're not really going to know ourselves until we kick the bucket.. Which sucks because then we can't come back and tell everyone... Oh, and the fact you have to die to find out kind of sucks too...

Anyway, back to the topic. Many people have sort of sing song in their language. Look at Spanish and Italian.. Those languages really flow, and depending on where you are they do almost sing it to each other..

One thing that I have always found interesting as well is the evolution of languages But that's for another thread

 

[shan]

strange reading this post for the last 3 weeks I've been studying & chanting the krishna mantra just to see if any benefits arise..
I think you may have something with the it being about reaffirming a belief, braineater ..
also I soon realized as children we were made to chant nursery rhymes over & over which imo are mantras & have the exact same effect! :Oo:

as I see it chanting a mantra is a tool to bring you closer to the source... though I think I'll stop with the krishna 1 now I only like BBQ source & they don't eat meat!

 

[BrainEater]

@mrboxey i totally agree that it can be fascinating to ponder about deeper dimensions and planes of existence. :rock: :rock:
interesting also that we seem to need a path to god, because god is everywhere always anyways lol...
but hmm maybe no path is also a path?? or maybe no path is many paths lol...
anyways... why do you think we have to die?? so we can remember god? however what about the concept of ego-death? to die before we die?? the illusion of who we think we are.. because that is not always the truth.
it's like many levels of consciousness etc etc...
i also like it in most cases when language has not always the same tone .. when there is also feeling in the language and not only cold robot like information.. something like that... but sometimes that can be also funny.. :-o :retard:


@shan wow that's cool lol... i only studied the mantra a little bit but haven't tried chanting yet... i had too much self-doubt lol...:crybaby: well yeah it's logical that mantras are like affirmations basically... i think at least somewhat in that context the idea of paths is interesting lol... in the sense that mantras can be tools or the path itself... hmm but that's probably a bit strange idea... hmm lol i have never heard of nursery rhymes ... or BBQ source that's hilarious lol :lol: :lol: :lol:




peace