controlling the unknown

[viljo]

Lately I've been looking at my neurological disease in a completely different way and it's something I would like to discuss.
I'll be using cancer as an example, do you agree that cancer could be looked at as specific cells that have turned bad or switched off, and that these cells now follow a completely different set of instructions that will affect the human body in a negative or undesired way. If so,
could one say that a neurological disease are just different cells ( neurons ) that also follow a different set of instructions that will eventually change the way a normal brain would function.

Psychiatrists seem or at lest to me be agreeing that a neurological disease, that is progressing or advancing has a positive or negative affect. Meaning that people affected first loose ( negative ) abilities like concentration, memory, socializing and begin to gain positive symptoms like delusions,voices and become restless. I guess you could say they loose reality and live in fantasy.
That's why I believe in or use of Psychiatric medications. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoactive_drug
I see them as a first stage at controlling or reducing these symptoms, I can say from experience that each one has its own level of affectiveness and comes with it's own disadvantages.

However realizing that humans are not all alike I also believe that it is possible that certain individuals might not respond to these medications at all. Which is why I have been looking at how substances like mda, lsd , cannabis and other illegal substances at present might actually have a unique way of also controlling a neurological disease, and in fact provide a more stable condition over a longer period of time.
An example I have is a small dose of d-meth can increase concentration faster and with 10x more affectiveness then any anti-psychotic medication .

So I cut it off there and just see how people respond if any respond, yeah there's no real question just observation at the moment and a sense or urge to share.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Well, Viljo, I've never tried anti-psychotics, nor have I ever been diagnosed with schizophrenia or psychosis so I don't know what they would do for me anyways.

I have taken anti-anxiety, anti-depressants (illegally - I stole them ) and the only thing they gave me was a headache. It was a dark time in my life and I took 8 anti-depressants in one night, just to see what they felt like. The next morning I couldn't move my neck it was so stiff and my head hurt so bad... Who knows what type of brain damage or what the hell I did that night.

amphetamines will most surely make anyone concentrate more. Have you noticed an increase in psychotic symptoms after amphetamines? Have you ever tried amphetamines without anti-psychotics as well??

I think, but I'm not positive, that what anti-psychotics do, and what LSD, Psilocybin, Mescaline, and DMT do are exactly opposite. Anti-psychotic medications try to block and inhibit the amount of information transferred in the brain, where psychodelics increase this substatially. I've been experimenting with combonations of prescriptions like Ritalin (amphetamine-like) and propionololol (sp? which is anti-anxiety) together. The result is a headache, and a feeling of shit the next day.

A friend of mine had a psychotic episode in highschool - he went to treatment, rehab, counceling, half-way house etc. They put him on some anti-psychotics, and bam. He was my friend again, same fucking kid, exactly. He had two very intense mushrooms trips (he never told us what happened) and just started to get very psychotic in behavior... Now he's identicle to my old pal. They set him straight, like a flick of a switch...

 

[trick]

i believe im bi-polor(show a fair ammount of the symptoms, and my mom and grandma have been diagnoised) but i refuse medication because i like the highs and lows. people look at things like that as a malfunction of the brain, but everyone is diffrent, and just because someones mood dosnt fit into a cookie cutter image of what people should be like. they are medicated to conform. so i will refuse medication, and enjoy seeing the most negitive/positive aspects of my life. its an eye opening way of looking at things.

right now im on a low, im extremly anxious of this new probation thing im on prying to far into my life and getting me in trouble.

but afew days ago, i was sitting in the rain smoking a cig, and was grinning and almost in tears about how at peace i was with the weather, and the ice cold rain on my face was just amazing. but ive been in that EXACT situation before and remember thinking how shit the weather is in england and how i hated it, and i could never go out and do what i want because of it.

it really shows me diffrent sides of things, and i find it facinating. the only thing that would make me consider meds is if the lows get TOO low, to a point where i cant just function and just be in a bad mood. ive been there b4, but ive trained myself to deal with it now. sure, ill probably end up there again, but knowing that theres a day thats the equilivant in positivity is what gets me through it.

dont get me wrong, not all conditions can be treated like i treat it. but this one in particular can be quite the eye opener.

 

[viljo]

Trick how far are you taking these high and low experiences are you seeking particular dissociative or associative substances to enhance or reduce these experiences. I find these experiences will occur in any environment imaginable and that time is an indication of how strong or weak they have been.




ijeasuscrist I'm not sure but you can bet I'm gonna find out, it was once mentioned on this forum I should try a weaker strain ( I think) of cannabis but I'm going to see how a very strong strain ( I guess) like skunk or hash will effect me.
I am very sensitive to cannabis. Amphetamines not so much, true! I base that on the time it takes to recover.

I wonder if anti-psychotic medications will advance to deep brain stimulation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_brain_stimulation

 

[trick]

ive been relitivly substance free lately and they are deffinatly more prevalant. i used to tune out the negitives and smoke mass ammounts of high grade bud, but ive recently changed that in a big way. so now they just are what they are, and i use them as a means of measurment so to speak, to compair them to where i am on the scale at that moment.

i find it quite humbeling knowing that ive been in worse situatuions(or mindsets), and that it can also get WORSE than what ive experienced, and in that, i find positivity in a seemly ONLY negitive situation. and also on the other side of the scale, if i feel positivly about something, knowing that i can push it even farther and experience even more happyness than i allready have is a great motivator to push towards that.

as far as using substances as you mentioned, not too long ago i did a massive ammount of mdma and was in the absolute best mindset of my life, and its good to know that, that feeling is ubtainable and even possible to surpass.

and for the negitive: depression after putting down the mary jane(i smoked entierly too much, ide mention ammounts but ide probably be labeled as an exaderator) after years of smoking it on a young and devloping mind has brough me to new lows, and knowing that they are there is also humbeling for the reason i mentioned 2 paragraphs above. because im not at those lows anymore, wich means ive improved for the better.

so for me, ill use these highs and lows as a tool to positivly influence my life.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Viljo you should try these nootropic drugs and tell me (us) if they have any positive effect:
Piracetam
Oxiracetam
Aniracetam

I think you like doing your own research so I'll let you go from there...

 

[tryptonaut]

Well I had been on fluoxetine for one year until I decided the side effects were much worse than the benefits, then I re-discovered shrooms, and ever since I am having a mushroom trip once in a while and it is the best anti-depressant I can imagine. The shrooms gave me back a fresh look on the world and on my life, they gave me new perspectives and creativity I had never known of. I can basically say the day I discovered shrooms as a meditative, powerful entheogen, has given me a new life.
I can't say I had ever been badly mentally ill, it had probably only been a minor depression - but one that I might have never gotten rid of for the rest of my life if it hadn't been for psilocybin.

This is just one case, and everybody's different, so you can't say this is how it works for everybody - but for me, psilocybin has been the best medicine I have ever had.

 

[Teonanacapilli]

My situation has been exactly the same as yours as you described it, Tryptonaut. I can definitely second a recommendation for mushrooms. It's better to use them and cure yourself than to medicate yourself with pharms :mrgreen:

 

[trick]

It's better to use them and cure yourself than to medicate yourself with pharms :mrgreen:

+1!

 

[IJesusChrist]

My situation has been exactly the same as yours as you described it, Tryptonaut. I can definitely second a recommendation for mushrooms. It's better to use them and cure yourself than to medicate yourself with pharms :mrgreen:

be careful though... I have a friend who took mushrooms and went off the deep end... He took anti-psychotics and it was like it never happened. He's back to the same kid I remember.

 

[ophiuchus]

trick, you are a perfect example of what i was referencing in the other thread, regarding "overly emotional" people. i believe it is merely a strong sense of emotions, and that awareness, if not cared for and spoken of properly can make the person feel like something is wrong with them. there is nothing wrong with feeling. in fact i would argue that it can give advantages if it can be mastered like you are currently working on. viljo, who are you to decide what is normal? i think that taking a synthesized powder/pill certainly is not natural; not normal in the sense of nature...

 

[trick]

Ya, i understand what you meant now. It just came across much diffrent with your wording in the thread lol.

"There is nothing wrong with feeling."
Im with you 100% on that one. but i garantee if i tried to explain my views to any lay person, ide be shunned. Its funny how the world works now, follow the rest of the sheep, do not feel, do not think, conform.

I dont like it.

but i DO like not being amongst the masses and having my own way of dealing with things.
I much prefer figuring out my problems using my brain.

 

[viljo]

allusion I fully hear you and completely support what you speak.

but your remark about synthetic pills questions me to ask do you really mean what u wrote.

How can I control my over emotional state when schitzophrenia is considered one the most debilitating medical conditions around. How many times do I have to repeat myself anti-psychotics improve my ability to cope with emotions.

Isn't that more important then any ones position on pharmaceutical drugs.
Trick did I offend you, I thought I gave you advice in a support- been there way. I'm confused.

:weedman:- Allusion perhaps I neglected something when talking to trick.

cool!

 

[ophiuchus]

allusion I fully hear you and completely support what you speak.

but your remark about synthetic pills questions me to ask do you really mean what u wrote.

How can I control my over emotional state when schitzophrenia is considered one the most debilitating medical conditions around. How many times do I have to repeat myself anti-psychotics improve my ability to cope with emotions.

Isn't that more important then any ones position on pharmaceutical drugs.
Trick did I offend you, I thought I gave you advice in a support- been there way. I'm confused.

:weedman:- Allusion perhaps I neglected something when talking to trick.

cool!

i didn't mean to harp on you viljo, my axiom is clearly expressed in trick's last message. i simply don't think that people should be judged in regards to their emotions. emotions are not something that you can just change instantly when someone tells you that you are "over-emotional" or "somethings 'wrong' with your emotions". i think that in a scenario like that, that it would only exacerbate the problem...

that being said. i dont believe that a condition like schizophrenia (i understand there are different degrees of what people would describe as such) cannot be overcome, with the proper care and empathy. as you have pointed out with your own case; "schizophrenics" CAN perform as "well" as "non-schizophrenics" in real world scenarios. that would be of course to say that i believe in such terminology, but in fact i do not. i dont think that a shizophrenic is any different than any other human being, they are simply just by nature, forced to be more aware of everything, and if you stop to think of the implications, it kinda makes sense.

i "used to" be obsessive compulsive, with many signs of schizophrenia, i became depressed for a long time because people didn't understand me, especially my mother and step father. this did nothing but make my time worse and seem to drag on forever. i got to a "fuck it" point and tried from what i could deduce from the internet was the best option to stop myself from thinking of suicide all the time. "pure bliss" "kaleidoscope colors" and all that biased positive stuff on psychedelics that lures all those poor kids with nothing wrong with them into giving themselves near death experiences.... i tried psychedelics and loved them. then i took too much, had a world shattering awakening of sorts, and now i realize that i am more or less in the drivers seat when it comes to my perceptions and emotions. it's an active process, but i have, for the most part, overcome my lack of being taught social skills, and my lack of motivation, amongst other, if not subtler things. (still working on my tact, but that's another story altogether... :lol: )

my point being, i have firsthand seen how these thought patterns, "disorders" can be overcome with the proper nourishment, both physical and emotional/(spiritual), with no need for a regimen of synthetic chemicals that create chemical imbalances if one were to stop taking them. and if the person taking them is still young (most depressed people are around 18), then their brain is developing a dependency and chemical balance based on these unnatural chemicals in the body. there is a reason that the body doesn't produce these chemicals(synthetic, not the imbalanced ones) and it is because they go against the nature of the body, all those horrible short term and especially long term side effects. over half of all the drugs i've seen them come out with to "fix" all these problems people are having get banned and taken off the market. people are being killed by them. just because you're fine now, does not mean you aren't fucking yourself long term. crazy diseases that had never been heard of before are starting to crop up, virtually exclusively from pharmaceuticals. beware. dont be disillusioned by the "quick fix", there is no such thing; just masking tape

 

[ophiuchus]

im not doubting that they "work" for you. duh, that's why they sell them. im just saying that you are almost invariably going to cause irreversible damage to yourself, if you dont consider better long term options. these things should only be used to get one back on their feet (if at all), not to carry the person around forever. most of these drugs havent even been around as long as you are alive. think, that's fucking scary, the people who sold it to you have no clue what could happen to you 10 years down the road.

 

[IJesusChrist]

I don't know mate, anti-psychotics were some of the first actually researched synthetic chemicals.

You can make synthetic psilocybin, does that make the naturally occuring substance synthetic now? The synth vrs natural are exactly the same. What I mean by that is there really is no line between natural and synthetic, the only difference is (with most) substances have been researched and tested for thousands of years if they are natural. That doesn't mean they are any more better or worse for you than a chemical cooked up in a lab one day. A synthetic material isn't instantely harmful to you, although it may be, as are many natural ones.

From my experience with my friend, I thank researchers to have found such a substance to tame schizophrenia. I don't know if he is still on them (daily) or if he only needed the initial dose, but he is the same person I knew pre-episode. And that is a very wonderful feeling to have lost and then regained a friend.

In his worst times he would steal money from me while I was a foot away, steal weed, hell maybe he even took my sound system, I don't know. He had no empathy for friends anymore - everything was about him. He even beat his father.

Now, after realizations along with the medication, I'm sure, he chills with his family very happily at a cabin during the summer, goes swimming most of the days, and when I see him, it's like night and day... I love the kid to death.

 

[trick]

Whos offended? im not.

I think theres just alot of misunderstandings here.

But as far as what you guys are talking about, ive seen the work of mental illness that most definatly debilitates the person to the point where meds ARE the only options at being able to function, and i guess i stand by that, but for my case, i dont feel i need meds, other people may. Thats not really for anyone to judge because its on an individual basis.

 

[viljo]

trick what's your favorite sport?
illusion always remember what goes up must come down!
Ijeasuscrist can I call you Crusty?
gluon call me gluon.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Gluon, I like crusty.

 

[angelababy]

i find it quite humbeling knowing that ive been in worse situatuions(or mindsets), and that it can also get WORSE than what ive experienced, and in that, i find positivity in a seemly ONLY negitive situation. and also on the other side of the scale, if i feel positivly about something, knowing that i can push it even farther and experience even more happyness than i allready have is a great motivator to push towards that.
it really shows me diffrent sides of things, and i find it facinating. the only thing that would make me consider meds is if the lows get TOO low, to a point where i cant just function and just be in a bad mood. ive been there b4, but ive trained myself to deal with it now. sure, ill probably end up there again, but knowing that theres a day thats the equilivant in positivity is what gets me through it.