Why wouldn't this work?

[HeartCore]

Hey all,

Suppose someone would had a strong Caapi extract from a reliable source and would take an equivalent for 100g Caapi combined with tea extracted from 20 grams of Mimosa Hostilis (taken about 30 minutes after the caapi) and nothing would be experienced.

What could be the problem when

- The Caapi extract was ok 100%
- The Mimosa tea was made by simmering 20 grams of powdered rootbark in water with lemon juice for two hours. This was repeated twice and all the liquid was combined and slowly concentrated to a small drinkable amount on a temperature below the boiling point.
- An extraction of the same batch rootbark has been done which yielded an expected amount of spice (so the bark is still good)
- Two people tried it at night in the middle of the forest and didn't have an experience
- Both felt nausea coming up at the expected timemark, one actually vomited.

I've contacted the supplier and I believe his claim that the Caapi extact is excellent. In the years I know this supplier, I've only receive high quality plant material so I am 100% sure that wasn't the issue. When I asked him this same question, he replied that '20 grams of Jurema can floor you and if you really did 20 grams, you must have done something wrong since'. His conclusion was that the bark must have gone bad. To check that, I did mentioned extraction of 100 grams of the same batch of rootbark which yielded around 1.2 grams of spice.

Could it be the timewindow? Are the MAOI's from Caapi only working for a very short term and did we drink the Mimosa when the Caapi already stopped doing it's thing? I can't imagine that but maybe we should have combined the Caapi and mimosa and drink it as a whole?

 

[IJesusChrist]

Maybe 2 hours wasn't enough?

I personally had the same problem, I put about 100 grams root bark in once, heated for about 4 hours, drank between 4 people and barely got anything.

I think the culprit is that you actually need to heat this stuff for 24 hours. Go ahead and boil it too - DMT isn't going to break down at 100°C.

 

[EndlessEntity]

can't all this be avoided by doing it the frowned upon "pharmauasca" way?

SWIM is still preparing mentally for his trip but wouldnt being more exact with the chemicals be a good thing?

 

[IJesusChrist]

can't all this be avoided by doing it the frowned upon "pharmauasca" way?

SWIM is still preparing mentally for his trip but wouldnt being more exact with the chemicals be a good thing?

yes and no;

some people would rather take the full on mystical experience from start to finish, i.e. make it like the first shamans did. It has a different feeling, and will likely make your "set" different than that of pharmahuasca, how much so depends on the person.

 

[EndlessEntity]

yes i understand some people want that "traditional" feeling thats been "established" but the drug isnt going to change
infact being more exact would just lead to people being able to explore it better

i guess it would come down to why the person was doing it. if they don't do things like that very often im sure they would go the shamanistic route but if its just a person on their own exploring the effects of a psychedelic then the pharma route just seems more logical.

 

[HeartCore]

Who frowned ?

I re read the thread but no frowning is to be found. Not from me anyway

To answer:

It was hot enough. The Mimosa was in the crockpot for three times two hours which really is plenty. From the same batch of mimosa, I did a spice extraction and used the same temps and times with the cooking in the crockpot and got 1.2% yield. Also I've done peganum harmala combined with Mimosa once. The mimosa was steeped in hot water for 30 minutes and that brew worked as well. So it's still a mystery for me why it didn't work this time with the Caapi extact. Maybe the PH of the water was too low and I should have added more lemon juice.

 

[EndlessEntity]

maybe not "frowned upon" but people prefer the traditional route from what i've heard.

your waters ph might have been too low so maybe add more lemon juice? wouldnt that make the ph lowER?

 

[HeartCore]

Yeah that's the only thing I can think off.

 

[VerusDeus]

Even if the ph-level was too low, wouldn't that still yield some effects at least? As far as I know, you could make Ayahuasca without any ph-altering, it's just less effective?

I was going to ask what a 'drinkable quantity' meant, but It'd be hard to have too less water to hold enough DMT(?).

Was it 20 grams of Mimosa for both, or per person?

And how about this: wasn't there like a theory floating around on the net on Caapi being psychoactive by itself in high dosages? Isn't 100 grams quite a high dose? Maybe your supplier made the mistake of trusting a not-trustworthy supplier?

I thought Maoi's were to be taken around half an hour before dosing the DMT-containing brew, so it seems rather unlikely that the Maoi stopped working?

Maybe your crockpot was too hot for the DMT somehow?

 

[Lazarus]

@Hardcore

"His conclusion was that the bark must have gone bad"

He was obviously wrong with that because you did an extraction that worked with it and anyway the bark cant go bad.

What was the PH of the extraction water?With lemon juice it would be hard to make it to low and the PH of the water itself wouldnt make a difference..If the PH had been to low you would have noticed it when you drank it and the next time you went for a shit.

The crockpot couldnt have been to hot and the cooking time wasnt to long.

"wasn't there like a theory floating around on the net on Caapi being psychoactive by itself in high dosages?"

Either you just proved that theory wrong or the caapi was shit .

The best bet is that the caapi was shit and/or you drunk them the wrong way round.

 

[HeartCore]

I was going to ask what a 'drinkable quantity' meant, but It'd be hard to have too less water to hold enough DMT(?).

We had 400 ml contained 40 grams of Mimosa. We split that between us. I read sometimes that 100ml of napta can approximately hold 1 gram of DMT. But that doesn't mean that there can't be 1.5 grams in 100ml of napta, some of it will just not be solved (if I understand correctly).

I thought Maoi's were to be taken around half an hour before dosing the DMT-containing brew, so it seems rather unlikely that the Maoi stopped working?

The judge is still out on that for me. Maybe I'll have another go but just mix the mimosa and caapi extracts together and drink them at once.

Maybe your crockpot was too hot for the DMT somehow?

Nope, used it many times to process Mimosa for extractions.

What was the PH of the extraction water?

That I am not sure of. In hindsight, when I did the extraction afterwards, I used white vinegar and a PH meter to get it to 3. For the brew I just used two lemons on 3 liter of water which I figured would be plenty. Maybe I was wrong there, I will definitely use the PH meter next time to check.

The best bet is that the caapi was shit and/or you drunk them the wrong way round.

Well it's definitely not the latter cause I remember taking the Mimosa last. The taste of it was very saur due to the lemon juice. I also can't believe the Caapi was shit, I trust the guy I got it from and he told me he only got very positive comments on it.

 

[Jahvisions]

He heartcore, long time no see.

Probably to high pH, maybe if you check next time you can go as low as pH 2. Amount of jurema seems ok. How are you sure the Caapi extract was ok, did you bought it or extracted it yourself? To isolate the alkaloids the extraction is a little different from dmt procedure, but of course you know that already. Did you take enough extract?

Maybe of topic but I have read some good things about caapi copy. Thinking about trying it myself, is that the one you used? I am interested in a good extract, you have my email so glad to hear from you!

 

[IJesusChrist]

Solutions:

Try harmamine seeds, i forgot the name.

MAOI's last for >24 hours, so that is not the problem. Some MAOI's (unnatural ones?) last for >72 hours...

Your caapi was bad I think. I don't know.

 

[HeartCore]

Solutions:

Try harmamine seeds, i forgot the name.

MAOI's last for >24 hours, so that is not the problem. Some MAOI's (unnatural ones?) last for >72 hours...

Your caapi was bad I think. I don't know.

No I really believe the caapi is not an issue. As I mentioned before, I really trust the source. I got the caapi in extracted form and other people who got it commented that it was great quality and super potent.

However, I'll probably try again in three weeks since I still have 3 doses of caapi extract left. I'll take one dose and a gel cap with some extracted spice 30 minutes after. Then we'll know for sure

 

[IJesusChrist]

good logic

 

[Jeniger]

I was wondering if this was a first time heartcore? Any nausea present?

 

[HeartCore]

I was wondering if this was a first time heartcore? Any nausea present?

Yes normal nausea, normal release (vomiting). It wasn't the first or the last time. First time was a succesfull solo journey using peganum harmala and mimosa and the last time was at a ceremony lead by a traditional Shuar medicinman.