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Why Legalizing Marijuana Makes Sense

GOD

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... 21,00.html

Thursday, Apr. 02, 2009

"Why Legalizing Marijuana Makes Sense


For the past several years, I've been harboring a fantasy, a last political crusade for the baby-boom generation. We, who started on the path of righteousness, marching for civil rights and against the war in Vietnam, need to find an appropriately high-minded approach to life's exit ramp. In this case, I mean the high-minded part literally. And so, a deal: give us drugs, after a certain age — say, 80 — all drugs, any drugs we want. In return, we will give you our driver's licenses. (I mean, can you imagine how terrifying a nation of decrepit, solipsistic 90-year-old boomers behind the wheel would be?) We'll let you proceed with your lives — much of which will be spent paying for our retirement, in any case — without having to hear us complain about our every ache and reflux. We'll be too busy exploring altered states of consciousness. I even have a slogan for the campaign: "Tune in, turn on, drop dead."

A fantasy, I suppose. But, beneath the furious roil of the economic crisis, a national conversation has quietly begun about the irrationality of our drug laws. It is going on in state legislatures, like New York's, where the draconian Rockefeller drug laws are up for review; in other states, from California to Massachusetts, various forms of marijuana decriminalization are being enacted. And it has reached the floor of Congress, where Senators Jim Webb and Arlen Specter have proposed a major prison-reform package, which would directly address drug-sentencing policy. (See pictures of stoner cinema.)

There are also more puckish signs of a zeitgeist shift. A few weeks ago, the White House decided to stage a forum in which the President would answer questions submitted by the public; 92,000 people responded — and most of them seemed obsessed with the legalization of marijuana. The two most popular questions about "green jobs and energy," for example, were about pot. The President dismissed the outpouring — appropriately, I guess — as online ballot-stuffing and dismissed the legalization question with a simple: "No." (Read: "Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?")

This was a rare instance of Barack Obama reacting reflexively, without attempting to think creatively, about a serious policy question. He was, in fact, taking the traditional path of least resistance: an unexpected answer on marijuana would have launched a tabloid firestorm, diverting attention from the budget fight and all those bailouts. In fact, the default fate of any politician who publicly considers the legalization of marijuana is to be cast into the outer darkness. Such a person is assumed to be stoned all the time, unworthy of being taken seriously. Such a person would be lacerated by the assorted boozehounds and pill poppers of talk radio. The hypocrisy inherent in the American conversation about stimulants is staggering.

But there are big issues here, issues of economy and simple justice, especially on the sentencing side. As Webb pointed out in a cover story in Parade magazine, the U.S. is, by far, the most "criminal" country in the world, with 5% of the world's population and 25% of its prisoners. We spend $68 billion per year on corrections, and one-third of those being corrected are serving time for nonviolent drug crimes. We spend about $150 billion on policing and courts, and 47.5% of all arrests are marijuana-related. That is an awful lot of money, most of it nonfederal, that could be spent on better schools or infrastructure — or simply returned to the public. (See the top 10 ballot measures.)

At the same time, there is an enormous potential windfall in the taxation of marijuana. It is estimated that pot is the largest cash crop in California, with annual revenues approaching $14 billion. A 10% pot tax would yield $1.4 billion in California alone. And that's probably a fraction of the revenues that would be available — and of the economic impact, with thousands of new jobs in agriculture, packaging, marketing and advertising. A veritable marijuana economic-stimulus package! (Read: "Is Pot Good For You?")

So why not do it? There are serious moral arguments, both secular and religious. There are those who believe — with some good reason — that the accretion of legalized vices is debilitating, that we are a less virtuous society since gambling spilled out from Las Vegas to "riverboats" and state lotteries across the country. There is a medical argument, though not a very convincing one: alcohol is more dangerous in a variety of ways, including the tendency of some drunks to get violent. One could argue that the abuse of McDonald's has a greater potential health-care cost than the abuse of marijuana. (Although it's true that with legalization, those two might not be unrelated.) Obviously, marijuana can be abused. But the costs of criminalization have proved to be enormous, perhaps unsustainable. Would legalization be any worse?

In any case, the drug-reform discussion comes just at the right moment. We boomers are getting older every day. You're not going to want us on the highways. Make us your best offer".
 

viljo

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20 Fev 2009
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we would all like it legalized, but!

It leads to a declining mental health state and is the leading cause of mental health problems, eg schitz or bipola.

who cares how much it's costing the government, wait till you see the bill for mental health. eg about $600 aud for a box of antiphycotic and it latested me 14 days times that by 8 years.

add everyone on the doll to lazy to work.

Don't take me too serious but you going to post these are people who abuse the drug, if that's the case, a few illegal dope growers is all you need if everyone is only smoking joints.

PLUS with it illegal it deters young people from trying harder drugs.

true though booze is causing alot of problems so why add dope to the problem, maby we can switch like amstdam, who knows.

liked your article
 

Forkbender

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@viljo

Read this: http://www.psychonaut.com/index.php?option=com_forum&Itemid=11&page=viewtopic&t=34052&lang=en

with it illegal it deters young people from trying harder drugs.

This is simply not true. In my country, the Netherlands, we have shops selling cannabis and there are less people using opiates/cocaine than in other countries. The reason is that the shops cannot sell anything but cannabis, while your local dealer may sell you a variety of drugs and if he happens to be out of cannabis try to sell you something else.

It leads to a declining mental health state and is the leading cause of mental health problems, eg schitz or bipola.

This is not true either. It IS true that a relatively high percentage of schizo's/bipolars have used cannabis, but there is no causal link between use of cannabis and these problems. I don't know on which government propaganda you base your claim, but I suggest to start reading up on real science. The relation might well be inverse: people with a tendency to form mental health problems also tend to self-medicate with cannabis, because it suppresses some of the initial symptoms.
 

viljo

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I wish you were my mate when I was out of the stuff,

couldn't care less if it's made legalized right around the world.
It's not my problem.
Just sharing my thoughts.

I will look after myself , my kids and my close friends from drug abuse thats all I have to do.

knock yourself out on it.
 

viljo

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20 Fev 2009
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i like buying from a drug dealer it's exciting,
i like hidding it, smoking behind the shed and burning my eyes out on eye drops.
i like sitting at the table paranoid that somebodys on to me.
I don't want to walk into a cafe were my parents are high.
I don't want to drive a car stoned cause if i fuck up i know I'm going to jail.
I like the drug scene it's exciting.

If you legalize dope people will want to leagelize all the drugs includes herion,
they already tried it over here.
Imagaine anybody can acess anydrug at anytime.
That's screy to me.
 

restin

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This is not true either. It IS true that a relatively high percentage of schizo's/bipolars have used cannabis, but there is no causal link between use of cannabis and these problems. I don't know on which government propaganda you base your claim, but I suggest to start reading up on real science. The relation might well be inverse: people with a tendency to form mental health problems also tend to self-medicate with cannabis, because it suppresses some of the initial symptoms.
After research I am still unsure about what to think about schizophrenia and cannabis. Neither side could fully convince me but both have some points. Wasn't it that THC is psychotic and CBD anti-psychotic? I don't want to spoil this thread.
 

Forkbender

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I find it much more scary that people are put in jails because they sell, buy or use substances that do not harm anyone (although sometimes it harms themselves through misuse). Legalization doesn't mean you don't have to prevent abuse, it actually gives you more opportunities to do so.
 

Oknayd

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5 Mai 2008
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viljo a dit:
i like buying from a drug dealer it's exciting,
i like hidding it, smoking behind the shed and burning my eyes out on eye drops.
i like sitting at the table paranoid that somebodys on to me.

Really?? i mean.... really? (can't seem to grasp this, i'm sorry)
I'm really glad i don't have to buy from some sketchy dealer that maybe wants to sell me more crap than i might want to

I find it much more scary that people are put in jails because they sell, buy or use substances that do not harm anyone (although sometimes it harms themselves through misuse). Legalization doesn't mean you don't have to prevent abuse, it actually gives you more opportunities to do so.

+1

God, i liked your post though I think it's not likely anything like that will happen shortly (when it comes to politics i'm a pessimist, sorry 'bout that) I still hope someday the world affairs will make a little more sense to me.
 

viljo

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20 Fev 2009
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Alright it was a crapy comment and the drug scene and having fun.

More to the point,

politics to me is about doing what is right, and by what i've seen and read I hope we still say no to legalizing dope and protect the community.
people lead betters lives not on the stuff.

I really don't want the government giving my lot the choice.
I hope they stay well clear of it, and lead normal healthy lives.
 

Forkbender

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But!

People still use drugs even if they are illegal and the link I've given you in my first post on this topic shows that the use of cannabis is actually not higher in countries where it is allowed compared to countries where it is not. I dare to say that most people wouldn't run to the pharmacy the minute heroin is legalized and I think that after an initial rise there will in fact be just about the same use, but now with a chance that it is socially acceptable to use drugs (although there still will be a stigma on abuse, naturally).

If we really want to 'protect the community', we'd better not lock people up for victimless crimes, we'd better not prevent people who have drug problems from entering rehabilitation and we'd better not spend public money on spreading propaganda based on moral prejudice instead of scientific fact. Legal drug use is safer drug use. Imagine what would happen if we'd ban alcohol.
 

spice

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'protect the community'......


yeah, RIGHT.


Anytime someone trots that phrase out there, I am suspicious......because thats a pretty broad statement, 'protect the community'......usually what the person means is that there is a system of values operating that he/she doesn't approve of, or doesn't understand, sometimes both, and THIS is what the speaker really would like, everyone to be 'protected' against them bad ol' strange values.

Those people might be having a good time!

Without the government!

Or a preacher!







:idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:
 

st.bot.32

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+1

I don't know why people project their (ab)use of cannabis onto everyone else. In my life I've maybe met maybe 2 people (well one for sure) who were smoking to escape from their lives all day every day, and what this person went through was nothing compared to the physical effects of long-term chronic alcohol abuse.

On the other hand I can't even count the number of people with higher education, productive members of society, scientists, programmers, artists, teachers, etc.. people who make more money than I ever will, from all walks of life who smoke it.. the number I've met is staggeringly high and never ceases to surprise me. I'm actually starting to wonder if among the educated there is a higher percentage of people who smoke grass than among the common population.

In any case, no matter what you think about grass... here in Canada keeping it illegal makes no difference to it's accessibility. Anyone who already wants to smoke it can get it. You don't even need a connection, you can go for a walk and score some weed in half an hour.

All that's happening right now is that the government instead of making taxes off of it is spending taxes playing cat and mouse games fighting a losing battle, and an unpopular one at that
 

viljo

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theres no need to turn into a pack of wolves, this is probley my first serious decussion on the topic.

I'm just not sure about makeing it legal, clearly your not in the mood for any other opionion then your own.

I'm not the only one with this veiw (maby on this forum) and yes I've started to read the infomation you provided.

easy there on the comment regarding, i'm pushing my experience with dope on to everyone else, not true.

didn't understand what you were on about spice.

Just to clear things up yeah, I like to debate things just as much as everyone else and I 'm not a stubborn individual, and I'm not a precher.
 

maxfreakout

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viljo a dit:
is the leading cause of mental health problems, eg schitz or bipola.


this is not even close to the truth

alcohol is a FAR greater cause of mental health issues than cannabis
 

viljo

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sorry not sure how to make workable links yet,

http://www.alcoholandwork.adf.org.au/ar ... D=cannabis
(Druginfo clearinghouse)

Has some interesting facts on cannabis,

Australian government has a 30 million anti- drug compaign in place
check it out,

But hey after a lot of reading I can understand arguements from both sides, sure is a hot topic.

I wanted to post more about the costs of mental health versus the cost of
reabilitation, but later.

also checking out other countries drug policies and how there going, I forget some of you are from all over the world.
 

Affirmatory

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You just cited a biased, government funded, anti-drug website.

And even that only says 'there is some evidence...' or 'it is believed...' that cannabis causes psychosis or reveals underlying mental problems.

You are more anti drugs than the anti drugs website.

It also says, incorrectly, that cannabis has a higher risk of lung cancer than cigarettes. Cannabis has anti-carcinogenic properties, and this is still up for debate, but most studies point in the direction of cannabis being less harmful than tobacco.

Facts. Yeah right.

EDIT: actually, that site isn't all that bad, I had to be picky to find those few things. But look at this.

"Australian drug policy is based on harm minimisation. This is about reducing drug-related harm to both the community and individual drug users.

Harm-minimisation strategies range from encouraging "non-use" through to providing the means for people who use drugs to use them with reduced risks. "

Providing the means for people who use drugs to use them with reduced risks. Like not having to fuck with dodgy dealers, or not knowing your dosage or even what drug you're on? Like not having money funding criminal activities? Sounds like legalization to me.
 

AllenB

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31 Mar 2009
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Legality is not much of a big issue.. Many people use drugs even if they are illegal.. But who knows, legalization of drugs can turn out good.. We just have to see its outcome...
 

Psychoid

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When a drug is illegal:

- More kids use it.
- It is very impure, often cut with nasty thing, which are responsible for most of the health problems cause by it more than the substance itself.
- Profits generated by its sale go in criminals' pockets
- It is taboo, so harder to be informed about it, and harder to get some help if you have problems.
- Put innocent people in prisons for victimless "crimes", often fucking up their life when they could have been functionnal and productive in the society.
- Put those innocent users in contact with criminals, and vulnerable ones may be "converted" because of that
- I could write more...


Who's still against legalization?
 

Affirmatory

Elfe Mécanique
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Poll from cnn. 4/15/09

"Do you think the United States should legalize drugs?

No Way - 6%
Yes, all drugs - 49%
Only marijuana - 46%"

6% still against legalization.
 

Psychoid

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Well I meant after reading what I wrote (not all people see this, but once they are told those are arguments I can hardly see anyone contesting them)
 
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