Terence Mckenna's stoned ape theory in a nutshell

[HeartCore]

The Stoned ape theory by Terence Mckenna

Right then, in a nutshell.

There are some facts:

- The human brain has doubled its size in a lousy 1 milion years. There is no other organ in the entire fossil record, that can compete with this. Note that this organ is THE organ that came up with the theory of evolution
- Psilocybin when taken in very small doses, below the psychedelic treshold, have the effect of increased visual acuity. Which means, you can see better. This has been proven by someone in some university sometime halfway the previous century. I’ll try to find the exact name and all but anyway, this fact has been proven.
- Psilocybin when given in moderate doses to primates, have the effect of increased sexual arousal
- Psilocybin in high doses, will initiate a profound, lifechanging experiences in the majority of people (given correct set and settings).
- ALL primates, have a male dominant social structure (think Bush and you see what it meant )

Assumptions:

- psychedelic mushrooms have been used for thousands of years (I wanted to present this as a fact since a lot of arheological evidence points to this. Mushroom statues but also wall paintings (3000BC) that epict a shaman like figure, painted with a psychedelic pattern, tens of mushrooms growing out of his body).
- Our early ancestors will have looked below cow shit looking for food (beetles and such). This can still be observed with many primates on our planet.
- A psilocybin mushroom, the dung loving ones that are still present in the Amazone, could easily attain the size of a dinner plate, they stick out as a sore thumb and its very safe to assume that primates looking for food, at some Point have tried them out (more about this later)
- Archeological evidence seems to indicate, that at some Point in early human history, there actually was a partnership society which differed completely from male dominator society.


The theory

Well at some Point it is assumed that where currently the Sahara is, there actually was rainforest like we still have in the Amazon. Primates, our ancestors, lived happily in the trees. At slome Point, due to climate changes, the rainforest started to disappear and made place for grassland. Our ancestors had to come up with a new strategy for surviving including but not limited, to their diet.

So they descent from the trees, looking for food. Grassland introduced ungulate animals which produce dung that certain psilocybe species just love to grow on. At some point, Terence argues, they must have been confronted with psychedelic musrhooms growing on dung and have tried them as a food source. IF this happened, and it doesnt require any imagination at all to see this, then this group of primates would have a couple of advantages over primage groups that didnt take the mushroom into their diet:

1) Increased visual acuity, means they became better hunters. This a big advantage.
2) Increased sexual arousal meaning, they had more succesful copulations which is another advantage because that means more offspring.

No evolutionary biologist has ever taken into account the diet of our ancestors having a prominent effect on our evolutionary path.

I think he makes a lof of sense. And it would explain the doubling of the human brain in such an impossible time.

Terence was no biologist but his brother and co-author, is a respected neurobiologist.

Now where is the bullshit in this theory? I read it the first time 17 years back and tried to debunk it but it only starts to make more sense to me.

 

[MindAstronaut]

There's no bullshit in this story at all, all the arguments in his theorie are givin facts who are sientificly proven.

It really bothers me that this book is kept in the dark by all the sceptics and that the government doesnt want to see the truth because the least thing they want is the people to see the truth.
That psychedelics drugs, the thing that they really want to get rid of causes a evolution.

They are holdin the society blind for many centuries by this adam and eva bullshit from the church.. :evil:

if the people want a bible to read i suggest Food of the gods by Terence Mckenna. :wink:


Peace yall..

 

[patilan420]

Yeah, it's obvious. In mu contry, there is a cave with more than 13 000 year old paintings of MUSHROOMS, the thing wich resambels the "homo" speashes than the neandertal for example is not the use of tools, the neandertals also had tools, even the chimps use and produce tools, it's the ART which is the difference, the triangular and the spiral carftiings, the paintings , the singing, the dance and the IDEA of SYMBOLISM, (that the carved or painted shape means mushroom or men), the abstract idea of the existence of a SPIRIT.. al this phenomenons of the dawn of the humanity perfectly mach the efects of the use of psylocibe mushrooms..

p.s. during a shroom trip me and friends once get to the idea, that the bow was invented before the arow, and was first invented as a musical instrument, and after an acident during a string-with-stick musical perfomance the people invented the using-the-bow-as-a-weapon option..
This can explain why the neandertal had spears, but did not heave arows- they just did never invented the bow, they never invented it.
The first bows was smal indead, and could not kill big animals unles the arow was stubed in the eye..or was treated with poisonous or narcotik chemical..
This is aso trace to the high level of the stone(d)-age early human's biocemistry shamanistic knolege..

the shooting- poisonous-arows-through -wooden-tube option probably was invended after the invention of the tube as a musical instrument too.

 

[Brewmaster]

There are just so many other theories about human evolution. You need to read some other accounts written by actual scientists. ( I know, I know, his brother was a biologist ).

My biggest problem with terence's theory is that there are more and more fossil remains turning up in corners of the globe that are suggesting that man originated in more places than africa. Not all homo sapiens had access to mushrooms. And even if they did, it's doubtful that they used them as a source of food as mushrooms have virtually no nutritional value.

I know that mushrooms have been used for thousands upon thousands of years. I have a minor in the studies of world religions and have researched the use of drugs extensively in the context of of these religions. But by the time any form of religion had become prominent, we as humans were, for the most part, fully evolved. Cro-magnon man and his brothers were people who lived for twenty years if they were lucky. They lived a life that was constantly being threatened by outside forces such as disease, climate, wild animals and their fellow man who had no problems killing and eating their fellow man if it came down to it. They were not likely spending their time looking under shit for "special mushrooms". They were constantly watching their backs, hunting for meat and gathering other foods that did have some nutritional value. They would not likely take anything that would alter their consciousness because they had to be completely aware and alert to stay alive. And if they did, it was probably just once and they likely learned not to touch it again. That is the point of psilocybin, it's a poison. It's there to tell predators "Don't eat me" and in the context of pre-human evolution I think that it most likely would have served its purpose.

Early man was driven by a need to survive, there was no need for increased sexual arousal. And I don't know about you but mushrooms rarely ever made me horny.

There is absolutely no proof to suggest that psilocybin had any effects on the growth of the human brain and to suggest it is just a stab in the dark. With a very dull knife. or a spoon.

Read some books by people who made a career and a life out of studying the evolutions of humans, not just one by a man who was mainly a proponent for the drug community. There are thousands to choose from. Of course T. McKenna wanted to apply a drug to the idea of evolution. That's like a scientist working for McDonalds coming out and telling the public that grease might cure cancer. He was just pushing his own agenda with wild ass speculation.

 

[Brewmaster]

I believe that mushrooms can have a profound spiritual effect on a person. But apparently some people don't and they need this BS theory to justify their eating shrooms for a good time.

 

[izmar]

Don't you agree that in some respect taking either small, medium or large doses of psychedelics is at least a shift in perception and awareness and in many cases an extension?

Low doses of any psychedelic increasing the ease with which you are able to focus your eyes on something is just one of the plenty examples.

I think the contents of Terence McKenna's words are not very special and many psychonauts have come up with variations on what he speculates before they heard of him. But it's not necessary to call what he says "bullshit". Perhaps it's better to invest our time in trying to prove his speculations wrong, so that what is left standing can be used in serious scientific research.

 

[Pazusu]

There are some facts:

...

- ALL primates, have a male dominant social structure (think Bush and you see what it meant )

Okay, I agree with the other facts, except this one. The Bonobo has female dominant social structure. It is nicknamed the make-love-not-war-monkey, because mostly conflicts in the group are solved with cuddling and sex.

But on the other hand, I don't see a clear relation to the male social structure of primates and the devolopment of the conciousness of the homo sapiens.

I do know another reason (assumption) why the other primates didn't develop conciousness as well as we did. That's because of the major advantage of a flat front of the jaw and the flexible tongue of the homo sapiens. We were in contrary to other primates able to make a huge variety of different sounds, so we could develop better communication. And the more words, the more conciousness, the better the brain develops. This theory doesn't make less sense than your theory, I think.

Maybe the mushroom has played a part in the story of our evolution, it seems to fit. But I think a quick evolution of the brain could have been possible too, without the mushroom. I'm not totally convinced how big the part of the mushroom really is. Or if it has played the biggest part.

Dolphins have developed ways to communicate as well, and have great intelligence and even self-conciousness. But they never ate psilocine mushrooms.

I once read a theory about the tenth planet of our solar system. Also an interesting story. In this theory there are a lot of remarkeable things that is written in very old stories that seem to point to life coming from this tenth planet to earth. Space ships are drawn in Egyption Hiëroglyfes, Chinese stories telling about firebreathing dragons (could also be space ships). The building methods that seem its time so much ahead of the Egyptians.

In this theory it is assumed Adam and Eve came from space. So that's a very quick evolution of the brain.

The following link about the theory is in Dutch:
http://groups.msn.com/Nieuwetijd/1hetgeheimvandetiendeplaneet.msnw

But there are probably more stories on the internet about planet "Phaëton" the planet that might have existed between Mars and Jupiter.



Interesting, but I still can't travel in time to see what really happened.

 

[Brewmaster]

Yes I can accept the fact that at small doses, mushrooms may increase visual accuity but not to the point where it made us better hunters and therefor evolved quicker. It's not like you can read a newspaper from a mile away. The shift is subtle at best.

Another problem with the theory is that in addition to not being available to all developing primates, is that psilocybin mushrooms are very rare in comparisson to poisonous ones. And as we all know, a lot of them look almost identical. It is unlikely that early humans would be foraging for mushrooms when they likely had seen others partake of them and become sick or die. I find it completely unbelievable that these primates which were still dragging their knuckles on the ground had the capacity to be able to identify the right kind of mushroom out of hundreds if not thousands of other poisonous mushrooms. I doubt they had field guides before language.

As I said above, the effects of mushrooms would be most undesirable for someone who is constantly having to fend for their life and they more than likely learned not to touch them.

 

[patilan420]

don't underetimate the ability of primats and other animals to recognize diferent kinds of plants and mushrooms as eatable or non-eatable only by smell and taste.

The idea of the alien origin of the human DNA, some aliens destroyed their planet and found refuge here, than started to fuck up this planet too?
sounds posible..
but also sounds posible another explanation- The aliens are spreading life and consiousnes in the galaxy.. But they can not be always everywhere.. first they spread simple vital spores on planets which has water- so life starts, than some bilions years later, when life produses complex beengs with central nervous system the aliens come again, examine their brains and spread special kind of spores of mushrooms which are eatable for the aborigens, but contain chemical which expands consiousness in a way, which can alow hyperspace transfer of data to begin.. than the aliens fly away and when the conection was established, they started broadcasting telepaticaly to the musheating shamans bits of creative culture.


Also is posible to be more than one alien forms involved in our history, who knows? The good ones who spread life and consciousnrss but come very rarely and the badies, who destroyed their planet and escaped here, maybe they broad the technology and the domination..
Since than began the RESTRICTION on the use of entheogens, so to prevent humans from conecting with the ancient ones.

 

[tryptonaut]

Something I read in Rick Strassmann's "DMT the spirit molecule" is that psilocybin is a really weird substance. It has this phosphorous compound which occurs nowhere else in nature and is converted to psilocin in the body which is almost like dmt, only its orally active.
This could easily be a planned chemical device: take dmt, make it orally active with one oxygen, then make the psilociyn stable with a phosphorous compound. There you go with a mushroom spore that can even travel space and which delivers a profound psychedelic experience.

I think it doesn't sound too weird. Imagine what we, the humans, would do if we were about to be destroyed on our planet in about ten thousand years (imagine the scientific and philosophical advances in that timespan!). Wouldn't we try to spread consciousness throughout space? We would. We'd do everything to spread even a tiny bit of our evolution to other planets.

 

[petfles]

Hmmm, we would send archetypes into space. Simple instructions, combined, can exponentially create novelty..

Brewmaster,
It is in our blood you know, we feel the need to contact the 'gods' that visit our dreams and visions! If it wasn't the mushroom that was leading us in the past, it would be some other substance. Just as every invention comes from altered states of consciousness. There is this creativity guiding us.

"It's not like you can read a newspaper from a mile away. The shift is subtle at best."

The difference is significant. But also think about the possibility to see more clear, with more understanding. That can be useful, searching for eatable plants, intuitive hunting skills etc. The real art of the game is in the unpredicted result. Every step forward is a deprogrammed one, this is what terrencemckenna points out. What we should be concerned about.

 

[HeartCore]

I didnt forget this thread at all. Will respond this weekend, without tootache

 

[HeartCore]

So I promised to get back to this and since some personal bullshit in my life has resolved and I am now able again to defend this without taking it personal, here's my reply

Brewmaster:

There are just so many other theories about human evolution. You need to read some other accounts written by actual scientists. ( I know, I know, his brother was a biologist ).

This is something I would love to know more about. I'm very interested in theories regarding the coming into being so to speak, of the human consciousness.

Not all homo sapiens had access to mushrooms.

Thats a bold assumption which I dont think you can backup with scientific evidence. If you look at the situation today, you will find psilocybin containing mushrooms all over the world. This is no proof at all that they did also exist everywhere back then ofcourse. As Terence suggests in his book about this all, there is very little evidence of fungi in the fossil record and this is because of the softbodynessness of fungi, if you leave the idea that fungi ultimately came out of space out of the equation

So ok, maybe there where mushrooms everywhere, maybe not. But I'm the first to admit that it doesnt have to be a mushroom that starfed the changes in human consciousness. Take for example Ayahuasca which contains DMT which is almost identical to psilocybin. The main idea in the theory, os that diet has been a major influence on the evolution of human consiousness and this is an argument that is not yet widely investigated. Which is quite dumb in my opinion since we are what we eat right

Early man was driven by a need to survive, there was no need for increased sexual arousal. And I don't know about you but mushrooms rarely ever made me horny.

Not quoting the entire piece but your point is, if I understand correctly, that mind altering substances would not be something our ancestors would experience as an advantage but on contrary, a disadvantage.

I think there will have been accidents with mushrooms for sure. some early humans may have taken too much and have been killed. But others may have started with small doses, maybe just one shroom, or a piece. Drug use amongst animals is not unheard of!

Habits evolve slowly so maybe while looking for incects under cowpies, ocassionally some of our ancestors found a prehistoric version of the libtery caps. Maybe it was growin abundant there and they started to become a part of their diet slowly. This may have taken thousands of years.

This year one ape is chewing away beetles and out of curiosity eats some shroom. Thousand years later, out of experience, the decendants of this ape learned that if they ate 1 or 2 shrooms per day, they could find more incests.

Its not like they did a crazy ass dose as I do you know...They experimented with food, they had too since climatological changes dictated it. So they started to test other food. Small bits at first.

I may have taken a 100.000 years since the first ape tried the first shroom and the first ape deliberately took a heroic dose.

(edit: I'm going to write another topic about sex and mushrooms cause OMG!!!!)

There is absolutely no proof to suggest that psilocybin had any effects on the growth of the human brain and to suggest it is just a stab in the dark. With a very dull knife. or a spoon.

One of the main characteristics of psilocybin is that it stimulates the linguistic part of the brain. To me thats as good an explanation for the doubling of the human brain in a ridiculously short amount of times, as is that cosmic rays caused it.

I would still love to hear about other theories that have a plausible answer to this mystery of the doubling of the human brain.

Read some books by people who made a career and a life out of studying the evolutions of humans, not just one by a man who was mainly a proponent for the drug community.

Ok Brew this is all in good fun and friendship but I find this comment really offensive. I don't know if you ever listened to some of the mans raps but he was way more than that. I'm happy to hook you up with the 8 hour lecture he did on this stoned ape theory. You'll love it

I believe that mushrooms can have a profound spiritual effect on a person. But apparently some people don't and they need this BS theory to justify their eating shrooms for a good time.

You know thats not true bro

I dont need anything or anyone to justify me eating shrooms, neither do you or anyone else.

Pas

I do know another reason (assumption) why the other primates didn't develop conciousness as well as we did. That's because of the major advantage of a flat front of the jaw and the flexible tongue of the homo sapiens. We were in contrary to other primates able to make a huge variety of different sounds, so we could develop better communication. And the more words, the more conciousness, the better the brain develops. This theory doesn't make less sense than your theory, I think.

First of all, that one example you gave about the non male dominator organized apes, I see that as an exception to the proverbial rule

There is no doubt to what you say about the advantage of the flat front of the jaw. The question to me is, why did these parts develop more complex in humans compared to other primates? This theory doesnt take away from the stoned ape theory. Maybe the tongue and jaw developed along with the brainsize because there was need for it.

Look at it from another angle, why did the human brain double in size in such a short amount of time while the brains of other primates, didnt? The questions work both sides

Dolphins have developed ways to communicate as well, and have great intelligence and even self-conciousness. But they never ate psilocine mushrooms.

It's funny you mention it. A few weeks ago I had an interesting discussion with a friend where we speculated about possible hallucinogens in the ocean.

But this is not about Dolphins Erik its about humans. To understand the evolution of Dolphin consiousness, youi have to become one right? You cannot compare Dolphin consciousness to human consiousness.

In this theory it is assumed Adam and Eve came from space. So that's a very quick evolution of the brain.

Dolphins and aliens....this was a serious discussion

Well I'm going to anwer this anyway but you promise to do better next time ok?

A lot of mushroom spores are made from an organic material that can almost compete with metals in their moleculair density. Research has shown that spores can cross our galaxy in a lousy 400.000 years, thats the blink of an eye in terms of the age of the universe. Other research shows that the best way to preserve spores is, to keep them in conditions comparable with outer space: vacuum and very cold.

Its therefor safe to assume, and also very likely, that some fungi on our planet, originated from somewhere out of our solar system. But thats even harder to swallow than the stoned ape theory for some people so thats why they made up those stories about space ships and Adam and Eve

More Brew

Another problem with the theory is that in addition to not being available to all developing primates, is that psilocybin mushrooms are very rare in comparisson to poisonous ones.

Not really, a few things developed in more or less the same period. Rain forest became grassland. More ungulate animals became present. A lot of psilocybin mushrooms are cocrophylic and grow in manure. Not many poisonous mushrooms grow in dung.

Herds of ungulates also could have been a safe spot for our ancestors, safe for predators, close to food (beetles and other insects under cowpies). And that is the reason why this:

It is unlikely that early humans would be foraging for mushrooms when they likely had seen others partake of them and become sick or die.

Never was an issue

Well once the mushrooms became really used in early human culture, surely they would have tried other mushrooms and found that not all mushrooms are sacred. However, the poisonous issue is nicely dealt with in the stoned ape theory.

Maybe more later

 

[Pazusu]

Dolphins and aliens....this was a serious discussion

Well I'm going to anwer this anyway but you promise to do better next time ok?

A lot of mushroom spores are made from an organic material that can almost compete with metals in their moleculair density. Research has shown that spores can cross our galaxy in a lousy 400.000 years, thats the blink of an eye in terms of the age of the universe. Other research shows that the best way to preserve spores is, to keep them in conditions comparable with outer space: vacuum and very cold.

Its therefor safe to assume, and also very likely, that some fungi on our planet, originated from somewhere out of our solar system. But thats even harder to swallow than the stoned ape theory for some people so thats why they made up those stories about space ships and Adam and Eve

Oké, maybe there is no hard proof, but it's a more likely story than you think now, and taken seriously by various researchers.

Ancient maps have been found of the planets in our solarsystem that are completely the same as they are now, except for one additional planet, right on the spot were there is a gap between mars and jupiter. It is called the fifth hypothetical planet, and it is likely that is has been there. Probably a lot of debris from that planet still travels in orbit of our solar system (maybe even including the spores of Cubensis ). Here is a link to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_planet_(hypothetical)

Here is an interesting part, unfortunately in Dutchm that tells about what I found about the quick evolution of man:

... Niemand weet precies waar de Soemeriërs vandaan kwamen. Opeens waren ze er. Tegen 3800 v.C. vestigden ze zich in het Tweestromenland tussen Eufraat en Tigris ongeveer waar nu Irak ligt. Door een spitsvondig ontworpen stelsel van kanalen tussen de rivieren irrigeerden ze de woestijngebieden, en maakten ze die vruchtbaar. Ze bedreven scheepvaart en hadden niet alleen boten voor vervoer over de kanalen, maar ook zeewaardige schepen waarmee de hele Indische oceaan werd bevaen. De Soemeriërs kenden alleen al 105 begrippen voor verschillende scheepstypen, wat toch wel van een zeer ontwikkelde zeevaarderscultuut getuigt. Voorts waren zij meersters in landbouw en architectuur. Ze vonden de emailleeroven uit en richtten van gebakken stenen geweldige muren, huizen, gebouwen en steden op. De Soemerische stad Nippur bezat alles wat van een stad een grote stad, een metropool maakt: scholen en bibliotheken, een centraal ziekenhuis, openbare badinrichtingen, verzorgde winkelstraten en bierhuizen. In het centrum verhief zich de ziggurat, een zeven etages tellende tempeltoren, welke zowel tempel als observatorium van priesters en astronomen was. Een van de erfenissen van de Soemeriërs is dan elf en twaalf op tien volgen in plaats van één(en)tien en twee(en)tien. De jaartelling, de eesrte kalender, stamt uit Nippur en wordt door de archeologen gedateerd in het begin van het vierde millenium v.C. Aannemelijk is dat het 'begin van de telling der jaren' in de joodse kalender - het jaar 3761 v.C. - teruggaat op het jaar '0' van de kalender van Nippur.

... Dan volgt een stukje over de benamingen van de planeten die op de kaart stonden ....

Hoe konden de Soemeriërs deze gegevens allemaal weten? Volgens hun eigen bronnen waren het de Annunaki geweest, die de grondslag voor hun cultuur hadden gelegd, hun steden hadden gebouwd en hen ingewijd hadden in de 'geheimen van de hemel'. De naam Annunaki betekent letterlijk zij die uit de hemel naar de Aarde zijn gekomen. Hun eerste nederzetting was ERIDU (verafgebouwd huis). Hun leider heette aanvankelijk EA en daarna ENKI. Het lijkt waarschijnlijk dat Eridu de Aarde haar naam heeft geleverd (Engels 'earth', Duits 'Erde', Aramees 'Ereds', Hebreeuws 'Eretz'. Ook de Erythreïsche Zee (naam van de Perzische Golf in de oudheid) is naar Eridu vernoemd. Enki noemde het land EDIN (huis der rechtvaardigen); het was de tuin van Eden, de woonplaats van de goden. De eerste groep Annunaki bestond uit vijftig personen, de tweede uit zeshonderd. Planmatig koloniseerden zij het land. De 'vogelstad' Sippar diende hun als ruimtevaartcentrum. BAD.TIBIRA (de lichte plaats) was het industriecentrum waar de ertsen verwerkt werden. LA.RA.AK werd het oriëntatiepunt voor aanzwevende ruimteschepen, SCH.RUPPAK werd hun cenrum van medische zorg. Tot vaste commandant van de missie Aarde werd Enlil benoemd. Hij stichtte het controlecentrum NIBRU.KI (het latere Nippur). Zijn ziggurat droep op de top een DIR.GA (donkere gloeiende kamer), waar de sterrenkaarten werden bewaard. Voor het verrichten van de zware arbeid schiepen de Annunaki de 'Lulu', de voorloper van de mens als prehistorisch reageerbuiskind. Volgens de Soemerische teksten komen de Annunaki van NIBIRU (de planeet die aan de hemel glanst en de middenpositie inneemt). Deze planeet wordt vermeld tussen Mars en Jupiter. Een andere naam die ook wel werd gegeven was 'Tiamat'.

If you want the complete text I'll send it to you.

 

[HeartCore]

Interesting Pas but I would like to keep this thread about the stoned ape theory, that was more or less my point. Feel free to open a topic of your own about what you just replied here

 

[Pazusu]

No offense, but when I read:

Dolphins and aliens....this was a serious discussion

Well I'm going to anwer this anyway but you promise to do better next time ok?

.. then I take it as an invitation of explaining more about this other likely idea why the human brain evolved so fast 4000 years ago.

I found it a bit hard to find a good explanation about the "aliens" between the one sentence I used before and where I just asked for not being taken seriously, and the summary I just posted. It is quite a thorough theory maybe even as complex as the stoned ape theory, because it is a sum of lots of likely things from history that were connected, that makes it sound plausible.

 

[HeartCore]

No offense, but when I read:

Dolphins and aliens....this was a serious discussion

Well I'm going to anwer this anyway but you promise to do better next time ok?

.. then I take it as an invitation of explaining more about this other likely idea why the human brain evolved so fast 4000 years ago.

I found it a bit hard to find a good explanation about the "aliens" between the one sentence I used before and where I just asked for not being taken seriously, and the summary I just posted. It is quite a thorough theory maybe even as complex as the stoned ape theory, because it is a sum of lots of likely things from history that were connected, that makes it sound plausible.

Well it was a joke to avoid you hijacking the thread really, should have made that more clear. And I do find it very interesting and I think it deserves its own thread. This one is more or less a thinking experiment to see if this particular theory can hold when looked upon closely by a group of people, so thats the reason I ask to open a different thread so the focus stays on the subject in this.

 

[myco-works]

if the people want a bible to read i suggest Food of the gods by Terence Mckenna. :wink:


Peace yall..

Yes, I agree. Food of the Gods is an excellent book. His timewave theory on the other hand, although very interesting, is a little hard to digest and grasp it in its totalarity.

 

[silv]

awesome thread people, just want to point out that this has been one of the most mature, interesting, thought provoking discussions I've ever read on the intarweb.
A thing I'd like to point out though is "the linguistic part of the brain" is a bit "kort door de bocht". What I mean by this is that: Sure most parts of the brain have in some way been linked to specific things (interpreting sound visual language etc) but the point here is: There is only little known about the brain and how it works so there's only relations with, not so much determined functional area's.
Hope this was kind of clear, and pazusu I'd Love to get that entire theory thingy since it at least sounds like a fun and interesting thing to read

 

[HeartCore]

awesome thread people, just want to point out that this has been one of the most mature, interesting, thought provoking discussions I've ever read on the intarweb.
A thing I'd like to point out though is "the linguistic part of the brain" is a bit "kort door de bocht". What I mean by this is that: Sure most parts of the brain have in some way been linked to specific things (interpreting sound visual language etc) but the point here is: There is only little known about the brain and how it works so there's only relations with, not so much determined functional area's.

Yes I put that wrong but its very hard to link the phenomena of the actual experience, to a physical part of existence, if that made sense at all

Let's put it like this, if you can agree with that, psilocybin seems to work especially good on that part of the brain/psyche/consciousness, that we would translate as language forming. Something like that. Its more an experiental phenomena I guess, but a very real one regardless.

Hope this was kind of clear, and pazusu I'd Love to get that entire theory thingy since it at least sounds like a fun and interesting thing to read

I love to read weird stuff but I rejected this in this thread specifically since its so far removed from this topic. You know, I've been 'test driving' this stoned ape theory for myself for over 15 years and the idea was to testdrive it here and find the bullshit in it, if possible. Thats why I asked (and keep asking), to keep it clean. The 10th planet theory was based on wrong assumptions or, if you believe it, there is a worldwide conspiracy theory going on to hide it from us. Furthermore, Pazasu is not committed at all himself to that theory as I am (to a certain point), comitted to the stoned ape theory. Would he have seriously investigated it himself beforehand, he would not have posted it here as a real alternative for the doubling of the brainsize of early humans in such a short amount of time., if I know Paz as I think I know him that is

I'm not in this for winning the argument guys. I mean come on, disprove this stoned ape business so I can move on to something else

if the people want a bible to read i suggest Food of the gods by Terence Mckenna.

Thanks for waking up This thread is freaking based on that book dude, its the book I got with my first bag of mushrooms 15 years ago

Yes, I agree. Food of the Gods is an excellent book. His timewave theory on the other hand, although very interesting, is a little hard to digest and grasp it in its totalarity.

I'm planning on starting a topic on that soon. Question is, will I be able to finish AND understand this book entirely this time