Quoi de neuf ?

Bienvenue sur Psychonaut.fr !

En vous enregistrant, vous pourrez discuter de psychotropes, écrire vos meilleurs trip-reports et mieux connaitre la communauté

Je m'inscris!

Bright Stars MDMA synth

Statut
N'est pas ouverte pour d'autres réponses.

spice

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
22 Déc 2006
Messages
3 774
greetings all.... I ran across a topic somewhere on here where people were discussing the pros and cons of the 'Bright Star MDMA Synth', but apparently a moderator locked the thread on account of it was going nowhere, but not before commenting that someone should start a new thread if they had first hand info about the actual process.

Well, here's that thread. I'm very new to here, but I've been around the net since Eleusis, and I was one of the co-developers of several parts of bright stars synth. I've ran it many times (long ago,of course) and can answer virtually any question one may have. I dont know how many people at this board are actually into such a thing, but the net is full of bogus information, and disinformation, and outright ignorance.

It is exceedingly hard to separate the wheat from the chaff, yet this is what bright star did. This synth works.

Sadly, it seems that the signal to noise ratio still needs help.
So, for as long as it lasts, bring your questions, regarding this subject, and I will
do my best to assist.

cheerio!
 

Brugmansia

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
2 Nov 2006
Messages
4 372
Hi,

Can you elobrate about the Bright Star MDMA Synth and you playing a role in it? I suppose it has something to do with the chemical structure?
 

spice

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
22 Déc 2006
Messages
3 774
hi... yes, well there was a website long ago called The Hive which pretty much blew the lid off of x synthesis. Every REAL piece of info on the net today regarding x synth (ok, almost) came directly or indirectly from the hive or its sister site, rhodium.

The guy who created this site had written a book called Total Synthesis.
His name was strike. After the book the website was created and then another book called (what else) Total Synthesis 2 came along which is universally accepted as the only x synth book worth having. Total synthesis 2 was basically a joint cooperative effort of dozens of underground chemists from all over the world with one common goal: completely demystifying the process of x synths. Bright Star was one of trhe regulars ('bees) who were at the hive, like myself and others. We had ongoing long distance collaborative experiments where many reactions and processes were run to cut thru the BS and disinformation.

See, Shulgins methods work great, IN A REAL LAB. But in the real world, you need guerilla techniques while still retaining technical expertise. That was our basic mission statement, really. Its a fascinating story and I met some cool people...

Strike was busted in 2004 in Texas for running a chemical supplyhouse called The Science Alliance which was tied in w/ the hive and other stuff. He got 8 yrs fed prison for conspiracy.

The govt got very concerned about the hive because the disinformation trolls were quickly rooted out and exposed. For a while the level of information was of an exquisite level. Unreal. Anyway, its a multi step synth and every part of it was verified via scientific method (independent results).

...its good stuff for real, its just that in America, no matter how good you are, its too risky. These Nazis fear psychedelics, and rightfully so.
 

spice

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
22 Déc 2006
Messages
3 774
...oh, and further, if you do a google search on Bright Star MDMA you'll find a lot of stuff related to that. Theres a website called designer-drugs.com and there's intellicandy.com which both have extensive snapshots of the raging organic chem fury that was unleashed by those people and their actions.

I know without a doubt that we did our part in destroying
MAJOR WEAPONS that the govt was flogging us all with, that of ;

a) Disinformation. Any time 'they' get nervous about anything in these areas their main weapon is disinformation. We were merciless on these trolls. The basic method is to infiltrate, hang out, and begin to subtly disinform.

b) Intimidation... they don't want us to know a lot of things. and use our (supposed) fear of them to keep us in check. Since almost everyone related to this site eventually got busted or got out before they did, I see it as soldiers who did what had to bee done. We went, fought bravely, and fell.

The fact that so many people got busted is illustrative of the intensity of the fever that this place was burning at.

Most of this stuff went on in the 1996-1999 time frame, so, as 7 years have passed, I stand here completely unafraid and will candidly speak of these matters.

As for a clue as to 'who' I was back then, read the first paragraph of bright stars synth. He gives credit to several people, all hive bees, and you should see a name close enough to the user name I use now to 'get' it...

I don't know if this is true or not, but I have heard that Dr. Shulgin (the pope)
DID know of our existence and even occasionally would pop in and lurk with great fascination. ( I was told this by a bay-area bee w/ some good conex)

My real area of fascination, and indeed, my 'Graduate Paper' if you will, was in an area of intermediate production using palladium catalysts and oxygen to convert sassafras oil to mdp2p whch is the halfway point in making mdma.

if you're interested, google spiceboy SRV or MDP2P KRV (where a guy called ketone did his version of my invention)...

Alas, I am retired now, but it's not a restless retirement, I have no interest in chemistry anymore, at least not at those levels..I want to just smoke weed, do x, mesc, and mushrooms, and get old.

...oh yeah...and plant the seeds :D
 

helios

Matrice périnatale
Inscrit
31 Déc 2006
Messages
16
I'll admit it: I'm interested, though it will be years before I try.
 

laststop

Neurotransmetteur
Inscrit
8 Jan 2007
Messages
54
Well swim totally overlooked that reaction vessle idea. The DEA is clamping down on p-benzoquinone and he lost his source. Hopefully this will be an acceptable replacement. Also would just like to mention swim finds it alot easier to buy pure nitromethane and use that rather than methylamine saves alot of time but to each his own.


On another note a certain french website that sells sassafras oil we'll jus call it P-S recently raised thier prices for a liter of sassfras oil to 125 euro or so. Any better deals out there PM me plzz
 

spice

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
22 Déc 2006
Messages
3 774
hi,
Yes, we all knew that they would eventually resort to clamping down on bezo. Thats what they always do when they get nervous, restrict chems, but they really dont like to do this indiscriminately, as it cramps commerce. which is the bloated god that they're all worshipping in the first place...

The benzo wacker you speak of made its first debut at the hive in early 98, courtesy of yours truly. (see total synthesis 2 for my original write up and others) Its one of the highest yielding reactions there is for making P2Ps.
I knew they'd restrict benzo so I also posted a synth on manufacturing it from hydroquinone (common photography chem).

Probs w/ getting DMF led me to the pressure vessel O2 wacker which actually yields 80% molar when done correctly. One of the critical secrets is to predissolve the pd salts and the cu salts in methanol for 24 hrs before rxn w/ stirring. Most probs w/ yield are this reason...

If you have access to decent academic library check JOC34 (1962) for the gulf oil patent on this process.


Oh yeah, the nitromethane route was devised and perfected later on at the hive and I did end up using it a lot ...its lovely....
 

laststop

Neurotransmetteur
Inscrit
8 Jan 2007
Messages
54
would you suggest making benzo from hydro or using the KRV method? If swim can start his lil project back up again it would be rather enjoyable
 

laststop

Neurotransmetteur
Inscrit
8 Jan 2007
Messages
54
oh also just for anyone wondering, you can buy the benzoquinone but you must sign a dea form stating all your information address social etc and exactly what ur doing with the chem and what other chems you will be mixing it with. Signing DEA forms isnt something most poeple are willing to do even when they are using it for legit purposes
 

spice

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
22 Déc 2006
Messages
3 774
OK- making benzo is nasty. I'm sure you've caught a whiff of that nasty green shit...its carcinogenic too...but it does work great w/ DMF and Pd salts in the Wacker.

If you've ran the benzo wacker you've seen the red color that it changes to as the rxn progresses. Have you noticed that that stuff will extract over with the MDP2P? (I'm sure you have)....the red is hydroquinone...yucky (the benzo is reduced to hydroquinone as it supplies the O2 chemically to the rxn.All you're doing w/ O2 is supplying the oxygen as a gas rather than a poisonous chemical).

The SRV/KRV uses methanol, Pd2CL Cu2CL and safrole and O2. Pretty clean, if I may say so myself. Zero byproduct tar or crap. The SRV is much more suited for small scale. But I made 3/4 of a pound of MDP2P in a week with it, so thats past personal ( a little, LOL)

Anyway, if pds not a prob, its the way to go. A typical scheme:

1 g PdCL2
4 g CuCL2
100 g distilled safrole
~350 g methanol

predissolve salts for 24 hrs w/ vig. stirring.. add all to srv process w/ shaking for two hours. Rest breaks of 5 mins every 20 mins or so are OK then back to shaking. Re pressurize per instructions, etc..

after a couple of hours, flood the rxn mix w/ water acidified to ph 5 w/ HCL and extract w/ DCM 3X.

distill for ~80-84 g of MDP2P as a pale yellow oil w/ a very slight tinge of green possibe.

As I say, I am retired from the active clandestine life, but my memory is good :D
 

spice

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
22 Déc 2006
Messages
3 774
P.S.- washing the carryover hydroquinone/ketone red oil w/ a 5% solution of NaOH will turn the hydroquinone into a solid and you can decant and/ or filter it out.
 

laststop

Neurotransmetteur
Inscrit
8 Jan 2007
Messages
54
yea, the hydroquinone would be filtered out as a solid before distilling, thats a must. We'll see about this srv method. tho all that shaking doesnt look very fun. so ud say all the shaking and crap you have to do is easier than making benzoquinone
 

spice

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
22 Déc 2006
Messages
3 774
One of my Canadian protege's had a variation on the Wacker you may be interested in...it involved using a stainless steel 10 L reactor (fire extinguisher)
and higher pressures of O2 w/ magnetic stirring. He was generating LOTS of ketone this way, but I don't remember how much of his process was published. He had two problems that I can remember:

At first weird colors were showing up in the post reaction mix. We finally figured out that this was due to the chromium in the stainless steel was reacting (arrgghh!) this was solved with a plastic liner (LDPE)

Then, a weird intermediate was generated which looked like mdp2p, smelled like mdp2p, and even aminated like mdp2p, but the finished product had ZERO activity.

It drove us crazy for a while but we finally figured out that we were generating an aldehyde with the oxygen out on the end of the alkyl chain, rather than in the middle, secondary position.

He did finally get it dialed in and reacted an INSANE amount of safrole over a period of 6 months using this variant.
 
G

Guest

Invité
helios a dit:
I'll admit it: I'm interested, though it will be years before I try.


Well if you've had Serotonin Sydrome, MDMA is the worst drug you could ever take....
 
G

Guest

Invité
spice, you're truly a king among men. the amount of research that the old school boys like yourself have done is incredible and saves so much re-invention of the wheel for the rest of us.

if it's alright i'd like to ask a couple of questions :

- the red stuff that settles at the bottom of the srv after doing a compressed-air wacker, is it just safrole impurities? does it have lots of product? i was considering decanting the alcohol / ketone mix and leaving the red stuff behind for the next batch

- related to above, what is in your opinion the best way to recover pd? i lose quite a lot when using vac filtering :oops: the little tiny pd particles stick to everything including filter paper

- is isopropyl ok as a solvent? is methanol better than ethanol?

- just curious, what happens to mdp2p if it's left out? one is always told to place it in the freezer.. is the fridge ok? :)
 

spice

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
22 Déc 2006
Messages
3 774
hi,
the red stuff is most probably isosafrole, a competing byproduct.
When I used O2 and not air, I didn't get any isosafrole, but with compressed air you get more isosafrole, a lot more.

It was an impulsive assumption of mine that the compressed air Wacker, which was originally developed on a much smaller molecule ( dont remember ) would perform as efficiently when transferred to safrole as a substrate.

As to the best way to recover..? When I was in the days of the hive, I was getting palladium for 7 dollars a gram from a guy in New York. (PdCL2) So I can't really help you there.

Methanol is the VERY BEST SOLVENT.

I would guess that the longer you store it ( never stored mine over a day or two ) the more important the freezer would be....fridge should be ok if its a good cold one, and not for too long..it degrades into some crap thats completely useless if you let it sit out too long, at least thats what I hear. As I say, I never stored mine for long
 
G

Guest

Invité
Awesome, thanks for the info!! :D

Hmm that's interesting and good to know since I'd previously assumed the red oil was useless

peace
 

spice

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
22 Déc 2006
Messages
3 774
also, we used to get conversion of every possible gram of safrole by recycling any and all isosafrole produced ( and at first, we made a lot of isosafrole)

into a peracid , ala Shulgin (formic acid + hydrogen peroxide )

so we'd make the iso work for us that way.

Also, you may be interested to know that a bee named Osmium ( that guy was the shi-zzit too lemme tell ya )

turned me on to a ref which documented that the wacker reaction WILL work on isosafrole too...we never got to actually use it but it was interesting...
 
G

Guest

Invité
cool 8) that sure beats throwing it out!

Osmium is another famous bee, for sure :wink:

i was thinking about something along those lines since iso is just safrole with it's double bond moved hey. i'll dream about that ref and let you know what happens

FYI not sure if this is useful but i've been able to use pd dust instead of pdcl2 when it is premixed with cucl2 a few days before rxn
 
Statut
N'est pas ouverte pour d'autres réponses.
Haut