Quoi de neuf ?

Bienvenue sur Psychonaut.fr !

En vous enregistrant, vous pourrez discuter de psychotropes, écrire vos meilleurs trip-reports et mieux connaitre la communauté

Je m'inscris!

After Effects - Psilocybin

MzFly

Glandeuse pinéale
Inscrit
9 Sept 2006
Messages
132
Although tripping on mushrooms is some of the best fun I've ever had, and the most interesting experience ... I've begun experiencing some not-so-great after effects.
I've been questioning people concerning frequency, as I'm worried about the effects of tripping too often.
After tripping since the beginning of September, first on lower doses (as I had never tried mushrooms before), then on increasingly higher doses (ending with 4 grams), every two weeks, I have started experiencing some psychologically negative effects. I'm trying to figure out whether these negative aspects are related to mushroom tripping or not.
Anyone with extensive (more than mine, at least ...) mushroom tripping experience and/or information concerning this aspect of mushroom tripping - I would greatly appreciate your input!

many thanks :)
 

MindAstronaut

Sale drogué·e
Inscrit
10 Juin 2006
Messages
968
hi,
I suggest when you want to trip on shrooms is that you have to take your time to recover from the trip, try at least have a period between the trips for a month or so.
trippin on shrooms every two weeks sounds pretty psychological exhausted to me :wink:

I prefer doing shrooms in a period from 2 to 4 months, depending on the availability of other substances on the market 8)

Peace..
 

MzFly

Glandeuse pinéale
Inscrit
9 Sept 2006
Messages
132
I'm more than psychologically exhausted ... feeling close to a nervous breakdown!
I'm thinking that the filter-lowering effects of psilocybin that I've read so much about are having an impact on me - unable to effectively block out all the undesirable "nasty" things that we normally keep tucked way back in our minds so they don't bother us in our day-to-day lives.

I guess I might have stumbled upon this negative reaction because the shrooms are available at all times where I live, so the urge to experience that incredibly wonderful trip can be satisfied at will ... but just now realizing there is a price to pay for having that wonderful experience too often.

I'll be contacting my trip partner to let him know that I must decrease the frequency to no more than once per month ... perhaps less.

I'm curious though, as to other people's experiences with this type of reaction to frequent tripping ... I really only read about other people having wonderful experiences ... inspiring ... fulfilling ... life-is-beautiful kind of experiences. Is this something that everyone who trips too frequently experiences? The only negative aspect I've ever read about, is that the effect of the psilocybin is diminished with frequent tripping - nothing mentioned about negative psychological states.
 

DevXavier

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
8 Mai 2006
Messages
1 258
I would strongly suggest to stop tripping for a while. It seems to me you're developing a psychological addiction to it.

You're now in a state you start noticing the effects of chronic (ab)use.

If you would go on like this, there is a significant chance you develop a (temporary) psychosis. You would be in a state in which you wouldn't know how to seperate reality (I know reality is relative) with your trips.

Stay off the shrooms for at least 6 months so you can recover.
 

WaseFraKa

Elfe Mécanique
Inscrit
26 Sept 2005
Messages
464
yes stop using your friends for some time. The mushroom mama stays with you for a long time after the trip, and if you trip again before you are again completely immerged in reality, it has the effects described. I don't like that after-glow that much, in fact I'm kind of neglecting my friends for the time beeing =P

leave time between your experiences and you will learn far more.

What I tell myself, is that as long as not much has happened in my life, there is not much use of tripping again.
 

patilan420

Glandeuse pinéale
Inscrit
24 Déc 2005
Messages
190
I prefer once in two months mushroom trips with medium or high dose than twice a month trips with half a dse.
Also I like to take diferent psychedelics(shrooms, HBWR, cacti,ayahuasca, salvia , 2CI,and LSD , so to have a wider range of expiriences to compare and not to develop tolerance.
And also the settings of the trips are very important, the place, the people around and our emotional condition at the moment.
If you feel not happy do not take shrooms..
 

Brewmaster

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
21 Août 2006
Messages
1 620
It's pretty easy to over do it, especially when you're growing your own. Just because you have them doesn't mean you need to eat them every day, although it can be tempting.

In my earlier days of tripping, I had friends who grew tons of mushies and supplied the whole damn town. They were always tripped out and frequently gave me large quantities of free mushies as well. I was also doing Lsd quite frequently,too. After a while I could tell that I was becoming disconnected in several ways. I would hear someone speak a sentence and not comprehend a word of it; it would go in one ear and out the other. " I'm sorry, what did you say?" This would also happen while reading. I'd read a whole page of a book, get to the end, and not have comprehended any of it. It also made me a slower reader in general. I was spaced out. This is about the time I started college and decided to quit all psychedelics for a few years. I felt I was back to normal after a year or so of constant brain work and endless studying.
 

MzFly

Glandeuse pinéale
Inscrit
9 Sept 2006
Messages
132
This is all very valuable information ... and much different from all that I've read before!
As mentioned, the only reason I had ever found online (before now) for not tripping more frequently than once per month was the possibility that the trip itself would be weaker ... I think these other aspects of trip frequency are quite important, and I thank you all for your responses!!
I am still interested in hearing more from anyone who has experienced negative side effects from tripping more frequently than the recommended "one per month or less".
At this point, I've decided to wait a minimum of one month before tripping again ... based on the feedback from fellow psychonauts here, I will probably extend that to two to three months. Now that I can feel how the too-frequent trips have affected my mind, I'm not extremely eager to do it again ... at all!
 

DevXavier

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
8 Mai 2006
Messages
1 258
One month won't help you. It might weaken the bad effects a bit, but when you trip again, they'll come back immediatly.

What you should do, as Brewmaster explains, is stress the brain. Brain gymnastics so to speak. Plus leave the shrooms where they are, I'd say at LEAST 6 months.

Trippin' is awesome, I know, but to screw your brains: It simply isn't worth it.
 

MzFly

Glandeuse pinéale
Inscrit
9 Sept 2006
Messages
132
Devxavier,

I'm actually leaning toward not ever tripping on shrooms, or any other psychedelic (other than pot) ever again, so leaving it alone for six months is really not too much of a stretch for me at this point.
Interesting concept, this "stress the brain" theory. Not sure exactly how that works, but if the recommendation is coming from those more experienced than myself, I'm sure there's merit to it. I usually engage in a lot of reading and researching, so I think I have that covered.
I'm wondering if anyone has any experience using meditation or vitamin/mineral types of supplements to help to bring body, mind, and soul back to a good place once this over-use has occurred ... ?
 

Brewmaster

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
21 Août 2006
Messages
1 620
Wow, I've never seen someone get burnt out on psychedelics so quickly. I felt the same way for a long time and still do to an extent. I still feel like Lsd is worthless as it seems to have had the biggest impact on my psyche. So many people claim that it is divine and spiritual but there is nothing holy about a man made chemical. There are far better ways to explore your mind and better yourself than with the use of drugs. We are holy, we are divine, we are already perfect. We can attain enlightenment on our own.

I seem to be using this analogy a lot lately....
Using psilocybin or LSD to create a pseudo-spiritual experience is like using a penny instead of a new fuse when you blow a fuse in your car. Yes, the penny will work for a little while and keep your stereo playing but in the long run it is detrimental to your car's fuse panel. It is not the way it was intended to be used, it is only a temporary fix. This is how I look at mushrooms and lsd; they can provide deep, meaningful experiences if that's what you're after but they are just quick, artificial glimpses into one's own spirituality, they are not the best way to experience your true self.

Ayahuasca and DMT are in a category all their own, however. Ayahuasca is not a happy-fun-time drug like shrooms or L or MDMA or anything else for that matter. It's something that I use when I'm feeling like you Mz Fly. Sometimes I get a little depressed or disintersted in things that are usually my favorite hobbies and I feel the need to hit the "psychological reset button". That's when I go off on one of my ayahuasca spirit quests. DMT, for me, is like the opposite of LSD, after a session I'm back to normal. Usually better than normal, I have energy, I don't mind getting up in the mornings and riding my bike 2 miles to work, I feel like I can carry a conversation better, thoughts and ideas and words flow more easily and I can convey thoughts to others with much more ease. Not like shrooms or acid where you do it too frequently and you get spaced out and depressed.

But good for you, Mz Fly for being perceptive enough to know when drugs are no longer being beneficial. You may want to lay off the pot for a week as well just to get your head straight and put everything back the way it was. And keep reading. :D
 
G

Guest

Invité
Brewmaster a dit:
Wow, I've never seen someone get burnt out on psychedelics so quickly. I felt the same way for a long time and still do to an extent. I still feel like Lsd is worthless as it seems to have had the biggest impact on my psyche. So many people claim that it is divine and spiritual but there is nothing holy about a man made chemical. There are far better ways to explore your mind and better yourself than with the use of drugs. We are holy, we are divine, we are already perfect. We can attain enlightenment on our own.

I seem to be using this analogy a lot lately....
Using psilocybin or LSD to create a pseudo-spiritual experience is like using a penny instead of a new fuse when you blow a fuse in your car. Yes, the penny will work for a little while and keep your stereo playing but in the long run it is detrimental to your car's fuse panel. It is not the way it was intended to be used, it is only a temporary fix. This is how I look at mushrooms and lsd; they can provide deep, meaningful experiences if that's what you're after but they are just quick, artificial glimpses into one's own spirituality, they are not the best way to experience your true self.

Ayahuasca and DMT are in a category all their own, however. Ayahuasca is not a happy-fun-time drug like shrooms or L or MDMA or anything else for that matter. It's something that I use when I'm feeling like you Mz Fly. Sometimes I get a little depressed or disintersted in things that are usually my favorite hobbies and I feel the need to hit the "psychological reset button". That's when I go off on one of my ayahuasca spirit quests. DMT, for me, is like the opposite of LSD, after a session I'm back to normal. Usually better than normal, I have energy, I don't mind getting up in the mornings and riding my bike 2 miles to work, I feel like I can carry a conversation better, thoughts and ideas and words flow more easily and I can convey thoughts to others with much more ease. Not like shrooms or acid where you do it too frequently and you get spaced out and depressed.

But good for you, Mz Fly for being perceptive enough to know when drugs are no longer being beneficial. You may want to lay off the pot for a week as well just to get your head straight and put everything back the way it was. And keep reading. :D


LSD is derived from a fungus, so it still comes from the mushroom.

Finding your spiritual self should also be done by some form of meditation or act that doesn't need some form of substance, just the mind. But psychedelics can also be a way to reset (at least for me).
But you don't need to reset every 2 weeks or every 6 months.

I've experienced a lot of mushroom trips and we're very important for me to turn my life around from shitty to really enjoyable.
I never got depressed though, usually had a minimum of 1 month, but didn't trip in the winter 'cause I hate being cold while tripping :D

Not unimportant to say, I also do meditation and am not trying to find my spiritual self with psychedelics, but
I do get the connection of using a penny instead of a fuse a bit, but finding your spiritual self with just psychedelics would be the wrong.
I think it's a good and playfull way to learn that there are much more dimensions then just hight, length, width and time and there is much more in life then just the things you can touch, hear and see.
Ofcourse there's also other ways to do it, but every method you use should be a tool, not something that completely steers your life.
You are the captain, not the ship.

I'm also into meditation and think it is also a good way of improving yourself and comming closer to your real self, but in a totally different way then psychedelics.

Ofcourse I don't mean everybody should go out and trip every month or year or 10 years, but maybe have at least one of these experiences in their lives (if they're mentally fit)

So many people have experienced a significant increase of joy in life and nature after a psychedelic experience and even more understanding for others it or getting more respect for life in all aspects.
The only thing you always have to keep in mind is that one experience is so emotionally and mentally loaded and brings you so much to think about that you really have to take a long break to have fully understand and worked out what the whole thing ment to you.

I am not in anyway seeking enlightment in drugs, but It can help to bring so much more understanding and wondering for the world, rediscover what you have lost during childhood and adolesence. I learned to be a kid again and not take myself so damn seriously and in that way I can help others more and I don't hate people anymore.

So in the end I'm speaking for myself and psychedelics are not the way to enlightment, but can deffinately help to bring more understanding or rediscovering of simple joys in life and help to get more out of life.

And holy.... yeah what does holy mean?
Holy means something has a special place in your heart so in a way psychedelics are a bit holy to me.
But I will never ever let them rule my life 'cause that way

But LSD and mushrooms are also fun, but DMT is a whole different dimension.
I know the feeling you described after a DMT trip you can face the world like a new person. I think of all substances DMT probably is the most connected to us, I don't think this, this is the truth, 'cause DMT is produced in your brain and leads us into birth and death.
To me it seems this is a holy psychedelic and also something that should be handled with uttermost respect.

My first DMT experience was this febuary or march and I still am so full of it.
If I think back to it I get a warm feeling from inside like that was the one experienced I connected to every living thing on the planet.

Anyway this story is getting way to long, in the end, take a big brake, especially when you're just starting, 'cause if you go to fast you will experience a rebound probably not with consequences that are desireable.
Even some people who meditate a lot especially in closed groups who live together get disconnected from daily life.

I guess the keyword in life seems to be balance

MzFly, take a long long brake, it's a lot of fun to do, but don't ever overdo it.
Maybe don't do it for a year and then do it again, but for now take time to process all these experiences. 2 weeks in between experiences for me is way to short. This year I did a lot of trips, never shorter then 1 month from eachother, except doing DMT 3 days after doing acid, this may seem stupid, but at that particular moment I was so mentally fit and I wouldn't have done it if I wasn't completely shure I wasn't up for it.
But now I'm taking a lot of time to process all the wonderfull things I've experienced this year. Maybe even not trip till next year summer again.

Just be carefull everone, it can enhance your life but also destroy it.
Like the rose has many thorns...
 

MzFly

Glandeuse pinéale
Inscrit
9 Sept 2006
Messages
132
Hey Space :)

Nice to hear from you ... as you can see, we started out just 7 weeks ago, and we loved the experience so much, we kind of over did it ... at this point - nearly two weeks after the last and strongest trip, I'm just beginning to feel better. As DevXavier suggested, I believe I hit a spot of temporary pshychosis from over use.
I don't usually embark on any type of journey without a lot of careful research, and this was no exception. We read reams and reams of information over many, many hours, for approximately two months before we decided to take our first trip. We read every piece of information available about effects and after effects. I read opinions from medical experts, scientists, and tons from other mushroom users. I posted polls asking about frequency on several different sites that contained forums (including this forum, where I received one response), with members who had used a variety of different entheogens, as well as mushrooms. I always received the same response - "no more frequently than once per month". When I asked why, the response was always the same - "the strength of the trip will be diminished, and the trip won't be as much fun".
So - although I feel a little sheepish that we went ahead and tripped way more frequently than others advised, I'm sure our decision to trip as frequently as we did would have been different if we had received this information concerning some very serious effects to our psychological and mental well-being. We are not stupid people - we have several college diplomas and a university degree between us. We certainly are not hoping to destroy our minds or to purposely disregard advice from experienced and informed counsel.
I think what I'm trying to say is that it's important for those of us with experience to share this type of information, along with extolling the many and various wonders that can be experienced by using this type of entheogen ... especially with people with little or no experience.
 
G

Guest

Invité
I can't agree with you more regarding the education :D

Most people around me who want to do psychedelics ask me for advice and I always advise to also look around themselves for information, but you always need to know that it can inflict psychological damage.

It's always good to help people who want to do it, to have a nice time, not the worst nightmare.

And I didn't questioned your intelligence ;)
On a lot of life's area's you're probably further then I am so I would not even dare to think about that.

But I also think education has to be a bit better, because you can encounter so many site's without finding any information about psychological damage.
I know there's a lot of stories about psychosis so that's the reason I always kept it safe and never over did it. Ofcourse I had to go to the smartshop (in another city) and pay cash everytime I wanted to trip so that also was a factor and I started out as a 15 year old with a crappy paperroute so money was a luxury item, but what I've learned in these few years (although it's little more 1/3rd of my life) is to be carefull to not screw up your mind and ofcourse you wouldn't have done it in this frequency if you had known this.


I'm actually beginning to understand what people have against "drugs"
If it needs that much advice and care can't be good.
But I still think it can deliver a profound experience that can be integrated in your life with positive effects and it's damn fun too :D

The time between my first and second time was about 8 or 9 months because I needed so much time to comprehend what I experienced and what it ment and ofcourse it isn't clear after just 1 trip, but I had processed it mentally and this is very important
 

MzFly

Glandeuse pinéale
Inscrit
9 Sept 2006
Messages
132
Dearest Space ... I never thought you were questioning my/our intelligence :D
I added that information in case anyone reading the thread thought that lack of intelligence was a factor in our decision to trip so often without "concern" for what it was doing to our heads.

As for legality, I'm sure all of this information (and more!) would be available for everyone if it were legal!! (it's extremely illegal here)
If it wasn't so secretive because of how severely illegal it was, I bet there would be tons of information everywhere you looked.

One more factor involved in the lack of information about the negative effects ... which I'm just realizing now ... the other forums that I've been reading and where I've asked questions concerning why people don't want to trip more frequently ... are sites owned and operated by spore vendors. Sadly, no one would really be willing to cast a negative shadow on the mushroom, because the moderators and the owner of the site would not like that at all, right? In hindisight, it would have been best if I had pushed further here for those answers, I think.

When all is said and done, the trips themselves have been some of the most fantastic experiences of our lives, and we are still wading through all that we learned ... very valuable and very worthwhile indeed :)
 

Brewmaster

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
21 Août 2006
Messages
1 620
Unfortunately, there are quite a few people ( the majority it seems ) who refuse to believe that psychedelics are detrimental to your health. I know first hand how bad someone's life can be ruined by taking way too high of a dose or by dosing too frequently. There are several close friends of mine who will most likely, never be the same. I'm glad to hear Space spouting off such great wisdom. :D Especially since I seem to be arguing with a lot of people recently who believe that acid is some miracle drug that's going to save the human race from self anihilation. All of these things are fun but as the man said "we are the captain, not the ship".
 

DevXavier

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
8 Mai 2006
Messages
1 258
I couldn't agree with you more Brewmaster.

When I first started psychedelics I thought they couldn't do any harm to my health whatsoever. Until the moment came I had a relatively low dose of LSD (I estimate around 200mics) and smoked way too much weed during my peaks.

I fell into the panic zone and my mind was set into complete chaos and sadness for about an hour. The stress was too much for me, so I aborted the experience with 90mg of MDMA salt, which eased my mind, just by doing it.

I noticed the effects of the experience in everyday life for about 1,5 month, until I could give it a place in my head.
 
G

Guest

Invité
Brewmaster a dit:
Especially since I seem to be arguing with a lot of people recently who believe that acid is some miracle drug that's going to save the human race from self anihilation.

Haha, yes, a bit sad to hear, but a lot of people have these thoughts.
Although it's less toxic then for example caffeine, that doesn't mean it isn't harmfull.
Only I think a lot of people want to justify the usage of certain drugs wich will create the image that it's something that needs justification for the person who does it and I think this is a poor mindstate.

Also they don't want to lose their fun by thinking about the side-effects, because it has such a big impact and is so fun to do.
But that's like turning around your head when a bus is driving right at you with high speed, thinking if you don't see it, it's not there...

And this leads to unwanted consequences unfurtunately.
But I haven't given up hope, so I'll ofcourse will always continue to try and educate people before it's too late...
 

MzFly

Glandeuse pinéale
Inscrit
9 Sept 2006
Messages
132
Wow ... I thank you all so much for coming forward with this information ... at the risk of sounding redundant, you just can't find this type of information online ... nothing but positive praise of all kinds out there. Anything with any kind of negative tone, refers only to "bad trips", and speaks only to the time during the actual trip.
It's almost as though this information is "taboo" amongst psychonoauts - really!! And - it should not be ... no one is saying that entheogens should not be experienced ... only that there are some vitally important guidelines, that can be confirmed by hundreds of thousands who have experienced most of the effects, good and bad.
I think I've just found my calling ... Mz Fly's mission to inform initiates of the very real possibilities of negative effects from over-use - I'll call it The Fly Factor ;)
 
G

Guest

Invité
No problem ;)

But that sounds good to me :D:thumbsup:

Let's gather a lot of information about the subject and setup a website of somekind.
With both the positive and negative effects of a substance.
Objective and subjective.

I know a dutch psychiatrist who has already done this, only I'm helping him a bit by telling that DMT is the active substance in ayahuasca not harmaline :p
But his site is really good and objective.
And it's not only about drugs, but also about sex, psychology, mental or social problems and all kinds of stuff.

He basicly wants people to find out stuff for themselves so they can use all the knowledge in their day to day lives...
 
Haut