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12 Poisoned in Berlin Group Therapy, 2 Die

mysticwarrior

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17 Août 2007
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(AP) A doctor leading a group therapy session gave participants drugs and other substances that killed two and left 10 hospitalized, Berlin police said Sunday. One person was left comatose and in critical condition.

The doctor who led the session has acknowledged giving the participants various substances and drugs during the meeting, Martin Steltner, a spokesman for the Berlin prosecutor's office, told The Associated Press on Sunday. It was not clear whether illegal drugs were given and whether the substances were injected or taken orally.

A police statement said autopsies have been carried out on the two dead people but "the chemical-toxicological investigation will take a while."

Police said the session took place in a house and medical practice in the leafy Hermsdorf neighborhood in the north of Berlin. The 50-year-old doctor who worked there was detained and a homicide division was investigating the case, police said.

The doctor, his 41-year-old wife, who runs a practice for alternative medicine in the same building, and 12 other people attended the session Saturday, according to a police statement.

"During the session, which lasted several hours, he supposedly gave the patients various kinds of substances and drugs that initially led to reactions like nausea and vomiting," the statement said.

When the symptoms got worse, one of the participants called emergency services, according to the statement.

When police and ambulance cars arrived at the practice, they found twelve people who appeared to have been severely poisoned, it said.

A 59-year-old man died at the scene and a 28-year-old man died that night in the hospital, police said.

On Sunday afternoon, nine other people were released from the hospital. One patient was still in critical condition.

On the Internet, the doctor identifies himself as a psychotherapist for individuals and groups. He specializes in "depth psychology, bodywork and art therapy, and spiritual crises," according to the Web site.

Two death after patients 'given drugs by psychotherapists'

Toxicology tests are being carried out on two people who died from severe poisoning during a group therapy session in Berlin.

Therapy Session Deaths

10:16am UK, Monday September 21, 2009
Toxicology tests are being carried out on two people who died from severe poisoning during a group therapy session in Berlin.

Psychotherapist practice in Berlin where two died from poisoning

The psychotherapy session was held in a house in a leafy Berlin suburb

Another ten people were taken to hospital after they were allegedly given a cocktail of drugs by the doctor leading the session in a private practice.

The 50-year-old psychotherapist has been detained by police and admitted to giving the group a mix of medication.

"During the session, which lasted several hours, he supposedly gave the patients various kinds of substances and drugs that initially led to reactions like nausea and vomiting," a police statement said.

When the symptoms got worse, one of the participants called emergency services.

They arrived at the practice to find twelve people who appeared to have been severely poisoned, the statement said.

A 59-year-old man died at the scene and a 28-year-old man died in the hospital.

Nine patients were released from hospital on Sunday afternoon but one remains in a critical care ward in a coma.

Police said autopsies had been carried out on the two people who died but "the chemical-toxicological investigation will take a while".

It is not clear whether illegal drugs were given and whether the substances were injected or taken orally.

The fatal therapy session took place in a house and medical practice in the leafy Hermsdorf neighbourhood in the north of Berlin.

On his website, the doctor identifies himself as a psychotherapist for individuals and groups who specialises in "depth psychology, bodywork and art therapy, and spiritual crises".

The doctor, his 41-year-old wife, and 12 other people attended the therapy session, according to police.

His wife runs a practice for alternative medicine in the same building.

source: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/ ... 4478.shtml
 

Caduceus Mercurius

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Bad news indeed. I wonder what went wrong...
 

Space-is-the-Place

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Fucking rapists :evil:
 

Caduceus Mercurius

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I thought I'd better check some German sources, and found the following:

http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/2009/0...re-verletzte-durch-unbekannte-substanzen.html

Perhaps a hint:

Ziehvater Samuel Widmer versteht nicht, wie es zu den Todesfällen kommen konnte. Harte Drogen wie LSD, Kokain oder Heroin seien bei der Therapie in der Schweiz und in Deutschland verboten, sagte er zu BILD. „Erlaubt sind aber Ketamin und Ephedrin.“

Ketamin ist ein Narkosemittel, das in der Aufwachphase verwendet wird, Ephedrin wirkt enthemmend. So sollen verborgene Traumata ins Bewusstsein der Patienten geholt werden.
 

mysticwarrior

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Hmmm, i guess there are already to much rumors... But i thought i ones read that ketamine could cause coma. But is it also useful for group therapy?
 

Arcticpheonix

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10 Oct 2007
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And if this kind of therapy were legal, you wouldn't have to have a doctor with only partial knowledge, giving participants lethal combinations of drugs in his home. Instead you could have it done properly, by someone who knew what was safe to mix and what wasn't, in a safe and comfortable environment.

It's a shame that things like this still happen. :(
 

Crimzen

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^^correct

if there were facilities for people to use for this purpose it could be monitored
 

phalaris

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This makes me sad.
 

restin

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I read that he gave them a mix of heroin and MDMA or something so I can pretty imagine what went wrong
 

Caduceus Mercurius

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restin a dit:
I read that he gave them a mix of heroin and MDMA or something so I can pretty imagine what went wrong
That was reported in local newspapers, but I doubt he made use of heroin or even amphetamines. From the other terminology used ("spiritual crisis", "psycholithic therapy") as well as the diversity of substances used (including MDMA) it appears to me he was doing similar things to what is described in books like 'The Secret Chief'. In that book drug cocktails are not recommended, but the therapist used a variety of medicines, including MDMA, 2CB, iboga and yage, generally in small group settings. I don't think ketamine was used in these sessions.

Notice that psycholitic therapy is not the same as psychedelic therapy. Psycholitic therapy involves low to medium dosages, with lots of verbal interaction between the patient and therapist, whereas psychedelic therapy involves high dosages where the therapist is mostly silent during the session. Psychedelic therapy is not suitable for groups exceeding 3 persons. For larger groups, dosages must be kept within the medium range.
 

acim2

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15 Mar 2007
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Maybe something involving MAOI without the proper diet.

Definitely could be deadly and cause vomiting etc.
 

restin

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That was reported in local newspapers, but I doubt he made use of heroin or even amphetamines. From the other terminology used ("spiritual crisis", "psycholithic therapy") as well as the diversity of substances used (including MDMA) it appears to me he was doing similar things to what is described in books like 'The Secret Chief'. In that book drug cocktails are not recommended, but the therapist used a variety of medicines, including MDMA, 2CB, iboga and yage, generally in small group settings. I don't think ketamine was used in these sessions.
Can't tell. We don't know what he really intended and what he used...
 

Caduceus Mercurius

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Here's more news (posted two hours ago), it seems it was an MDMA/ephedrine combo, but in any case the patients were offered white powder and white tablets:

Drogen-Therapie: Ein Teilnehmer berichtet

In der Zeitung „B.Z.“ erzählte ein Mann von den Sitzungen, deren Teilnehmer jeweils 100 bis 150 Euro zahlen mussten. Am Samstagnachmittag habe der Therapeut nach Gesprächen und Meditation zwei Becher mit Drogen angeboten: weißes Pulver und weiße Tabletten. Die Begriffe Ecstasy und Ephedrin – eine pflanzliche Droge – seien gefallen. Beide Substanzen gehören zur Gruppe der Amphetamine, Drogen mit stimulierender und euphorisierender Wirkung. Die Drogen seien auch bei früheren Sitzungen konsumiert worden. Alle Mitglieder der Gruppe hätten Bescheid gewusst.

More here:
http://derstandard.at/fs/1253596350...n-Berlin-Streit-um-Drogen-Guru-in-der-Schweiz

Und hier:
http://www.hna.de/hptopnews/00_20090922175800_Gift_Mixer_praktizierte_auch_in_Nordhessen.html

-alfaline-hna-hessen-reg-arzt_17599_onlineBild.jpg
 

Bastiaan

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14 Sept 2007
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This is dreadful news :(
But I am hearing some things I don't understand..

Harte Drogen wie LSD, Kokain oder Heroin seien bei der Therapie in der Schweiz und in Deutschland verboten

And others are allowed??
 

atypical

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why does this have to happen while mdma is achieving new heights as to its medical/therapeutic value in a bunchof places.. does not bode well, i am sad now both for the unfortunate people not given enough knowledge to survive and for the international organizations trying to legitamitely help people with these substances.
will meditate on this as i drink my kratom that is brewing in front of me :)/:(
 

Caduceus Mercurius

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Bastiaan a dit:
And others are allowed??
As mentioned in some of the articles the use of ketamine and ephedrine are allowed.
 

Caduceus Mercurius

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http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/2009/09/22/drogen-arzt-garri-razzia/in-berlin.html

Patient Johannes W. (Name geändert) war anwesend, als den zwei Mit-Patienten der Drogen-Cocktail verabreicht wurde. Er berichtet: „Wir saßen alle im Praxisraum im Dachgeschoss, in einem Kreis auf Decken. Wir begrüßten uns gegenseitig, jeder erzählte, wie es ihm derzeit geht. Zwischendurch meditierte jeder für sich. Rollenspiele – wie sonst üblich – gab es diesmal nicht.“

Nach etwa einer Stunde holte Garri R. die Drogen hervor, breitete sie aus.

„An diesem Tag gab es zwei Becher zur Auswahl“, schildert Johannes W. gegenüber der „B.Z.“. „Der Arzt packte weißes Pulver und Tabletten aus. Bevor er sie uns anbot, erklärte er uns genau die Zusammensetzung. Jeder wusste, was es war. Keiner war gezwungen, etwas davon zu nehmen. Während er sprach, fielen die Worte Ephedrin und MDMA – das ist Ecstasy. Es gab kein Heroin. Ich erinnere mich, es handelte sich im Wesentlichen um Amphetamine.“

Johannes W. war einer der drei Teilnehmer, die nicht zugegriffen haben.

„Die zwei Teilnehmer, die später verstarben, nahmen beides, die Tabletten und das Pulver.“

And:

Der Teilnehmer der Todes-Therapie erinnert sich: „Dass etwas schieflief, realisierten wir, als ein Teilnehmer plötzlich nach Luft rang, im Liegen zusammensackte und einen Herzstillstand erlitt. Der Doktor reanimierte ihn sofort, brüllte ‚Notarzt, Notarzt’. Sofort rannte seine Frau nach unten. Kurze Zeit später kamen ein Rettungswagen, die Feuerwehr und die Polizei.“

So it was a combination of ephedrine and ecstasy tablets. It might have simply been an ephedrine overdose:

Central effects of sympathomimetic agents include:
tremor, fear, anxiety, confusion, irritability, insomnia, and
psychotic states. Paranoid psychosis, delusions and
hallucinations may also follow ephedrine overdose.

Effects on the cardiovascular system are complex:
vasoconstriction, hypertension, or hypotension and
bradycardia, tachycardia, palpitations, cardiac arrest.
 

gammagoblin

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2 Mai 2007
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why would one use ephedrine in a therapeutic session? I always thought that ephedrine was just an upper and that the only therapeutic value it has is for
For over 5000 years, the chinese have used ephedra as an herbal remedy for asthma, cough, headache, fever, allergies and the common cold.
 

Bastiaan

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It's of course a strain on the cardiovascular system to combine uppers, yet mdma's blood pressure increase etc are not that extreme.
Ephedrine however is a different story. A very different story.
I took 2 ephedra caps one time, years back, when they were still legal over here (the red caps).
I have had quite the doses of amphetamine (wich I am not proud of at all.. :S) but this was way different.
I had never ever felt so energetic in my life at any moment, it was well beyond ridiculous, even frightening, and it lasted for a good couple of hours.
I was like 14 of 15 then and the next two days I experienced some pain in my heart region.
And I was youthful and with a strong heart.
For as much as I know those caps were an ephedra extract, not pure ephedrine.
I don't know wether this 'doctor' knew what he was doing considering dosage if he was using pure ephedrine and if he had worked with this before.
It's use is widespread for medication against some diseases (in small dosages) and is still legal in some countries without prescription.
Perhaps he thought it had to be real innocent or something.
Would have been a real stupid mistake but it's possible.
Or perhaps he accidently gave the patients a double dose of ephedrine (the single dose already had to have been too high though imo, considering this tragedy.. why screw around with high doses, I don't see the point).
That's all I can think of if it's really about ephedrine and mdma here but I wouldn't be suprised to say the least if it turns out not to have been the case.
Last thing that just came to mind. Ephedrine builds tolerance over time as far as I know. Someone that hasn't been using's body would be blown away by a dose that someone who's body is used to it would easily be able to take.

This kind of thing involves SERIOUS responsibility and people that do this kind of thing need to know what they're doing. I wonder if he had informed himself about the participants' cardiovascular states of health.. anyone with any complications in this area or even a certain health history in the family or even over a certain age shouldn't even come near ephedrine imo. This is a real thorn in the eye..
:cry:

These 'doctors'.... why use ephedrine for such a purpuse anyway?! From my experience the effects are strictly physical and the psychological effects ('feeling better'?) are merely derived from the (ridiculous) increase in energy one experiences
 
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