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What is the Matrix? reborn thread
#31
zezt a écrit :because people who use it look up to authority figures like W Bush etc who use it in that way. So....
That's not true. I also use the term "conspiracy theorist" in a derogatory way, but I don't look up to Bush or ANY authority figure. Nor do I reject EVERYTHING people like David Icke, Alex Jones, Benjamin Fulford or Mike Adams say. The British monarchy IS evil, but they're not shapeshifting lizards. America IS turning into a brutal police state, but its government is not behind every mass shooting or terrorist attack.

So what I'm suggesting here (and this is the only reason why I'm participating in this discussion) is that there are more alternatives to either the "official story" or the various conspiracy theories. Especially as psychonauts we should be openminded enough to question ALL narratives.

Citation :EVERYONE who IS interested in investigating conspiracies, which also means questioning official narratives is called a conspiracy theorist by officialdom AND their supporters.
Well, I can't speak on behalf of the entire world, but I have encountered plenty of people who laugh at conspiracy theorists yet do not support officialdom in any way, but simply have an unbiased approach. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And the evidence provided by conspiracy theories is always questionable.

I know there are MANY people, myself included, who have been conspiracy theorists in the past, but then changed their minds. They continue to distrust the US government, but not to the extent that conspiracy theorists do. They acknowledge that there HAVE been False Flag operations, but deny that the attacks of 9/11 were staged to the extent of rigging the Twin Towers with explosives and deliberately killing thousands of US citizens.

Citation :Where you getting your info for that?
Everywhere on the internet, particularly on social media sites, people are all posting pictures of white trails in the sky, claiming they are chemtrails. Several of my friends here in the Netherlands have done so, indirectly suggesting all commercial airliners are producing chemtrails. Just do an image search for "chemtrails", and you see nothing but pictures of trails in the sky, produced by commercial airliners.

Or a random example:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]14095[/ATTACH]


Citation :How come then the BBC finally admits to geoengineering?
That's a different topic. Geoengineering is happening, but not over Schiphol Airport. That's the difference between what I call a conspiracy theory (regular airplanes spraying European citizens with toxic chemicals) and something that is not at all disputed (scientists experimenting with geoengineering).

Compare:

Geoengineering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chemtrail conspiracy theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The present moment is the only door into existence. The past and future are not doors, they are walls."

"We place no reliance on virgin or pigeon. Our method is science, our aim is religion."

"Enlightenment doesn't care how you get there."
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#32
Finarfin a écrit :My perception of you changed when you started to post a lot of (illuminati) garbage and simpleminded statements
I don't think any of the statements I have posted here in the past one or two months have been simpleminded. In fact my views are extremely complex and subtle.

Citation :I do not understand why someone who seems to be intelligent can post such garbage.
Well, either I'm not intelligent at all, or the things I say aren't garbage.

But whatever your conclusion may be, don't base it on things I said in 2011 (around the time of the Occupy protests). I'm certainly not judging you on the basis of things you said a long time ago. I assume you have been refining your worldview since then.

Citation :Communication with you in the past was like talking to a brick wall.

Actually, now that you mention it, I remember why I got frustrated talking with you. Back then you were constantly replacing my words with your own (one of your favorite words was "violence", which you inserted into anything I suggested), and then arguing with me on the basis of your OWN interpretations rather than MY words. This got annoying after a while, which is why I unfriended you.
"The present moment is the only door into existence. The past and future are not doors, they are walls."

"We place no reliance on virgin or pigeon. Our method is science, our aim is religion."

"Enlightenment doesn't care how you get there."
  Répondre
#33
Want to know what the matrix really is? Here's what it is. Since the beginning of time, there were animals, plants, humans, and insects coexisting with each other. Somewhere along the line, the mean bad people among the group wanted to gain control and plunge society into ignorance. They stopped the people from exploring the mind and wanted people to only think of the now. People started becoming careless. Centralizing the food and safety so it becomes a privileged not a right. Ignoring the smart ones and good ones in exchange for hatred, and illusions of a carefree life. Then it began backfiring. The people realized that they were tricked, yet continue to drink the Kool-Aid for some time. Then the psychedelic revolution tried to warn people. It worked for a while, but then it was stopped. The peace(the key point) was stopped too. People were convinced that peace was terrorism talk. How could peace possibly be terrorism? In the meantime, the peace sign got turned upside down and even pictures were photo-shopped to turn the peace sign upside down. It's supposed to look like a tree, not an upside down tree! Not to mention the devious works of Nixon and Rob Portman. Even corporations actively suppressed studies that show that natural and semi-synthetic psychedelics could not only cause hallucinations, but have medical and even nootropic effects at low doses. The media went from being run by people to being bought up by special interests. There was also a movement by special interests to end safety, increase the wealth gap, and privatize jails, schools, police training, and even some courts. Hence, nearly no one prosecutes gangs, but they're very eager to prosecute common citizens and dare to label them the terrorists. There's also deforestation and pollution happening at unprecedented levels. It's a war for your minds. They fear us more than we fear them. That's why they kill the smart ones among us. We are more than our surroundings. There's glitches in the matrix, and they're trying to patch it all up. There's also the fact that people tend to be edgy nowadays, where as before, they were relaxed and only casually anxious sometimes. It's like most people are either taking denial or MinusIQ.
:lol:
Don't take the blue pill or the red pill. Take the purple pill! 8)
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#34
Caduceus Mercurius a écrit :That's not true. I also use the term "conspiracy theorist" in a derogatory way, but I don't look up to Bush or ANY authority figure. Nor do I reject EVERYTHING people like David Icke, Alex Jones, Benjamin Fulford or Mike Adams say. The British monarchy IS evil, but they're not shapeshifting lizards. America IS turning into a brutal police state, but its government is not behind every mass shooting or terrorist attack.

So what I'm suggesting here (and this is the only reason why I'm participating in this discussion) is that there are more alternatives to either the "official story" or the various conspiracy theories. Especially as psychonauts we should be openminded enough to question ALL narratives.


Well, I can't speak on behalf of the entire world, but I have encountered plenty of people who laugh at conspiracy theorists yet do not support officialdom in any way, but simply have an unbiased approach. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And the evidence provided by conspiracy theories is always questionable.

I know there are MANY people, myself included, who have been conspiracy theorists in the past, but then changed their minds. They continue to distrust the US government, but not to the extent that conspiracy theorists do. They acknowledge that there HAVE been False Flag operations, but deny that the attacks of 9/11 were staged to the extent of rigging the Twin Towers with explosives and deliberately killing thousands of US citizens.

What you say makes no sense to me. It is muddled. You surely must know that when the government and its media are talking about crime committed by other groups they don't shy away from using the term 'conspiracy' YET any challenging and questioning of their possible and proabable crime and those doing so get called 'conspiracy theorist'. Can you not see what is going on here, and how that term is being used to stop people challenging the official stories they and their media put out?

Citation :People who want to investigate about 9/11, they are called “conspiracy theorists”, and this is put in a way as to suggest that conspiracies are nonsense, and as an historian, I am aware that sometimes you have conspiracies [33:19]. For example:

Fidel Castro and Khrushchev decided to put nuclear missiles into Cuba
but didn’t tell Kennedy. That is a conspiracy. If two people agree in silence that is a conspiracy.

Or when the CIA over thrower Salvador Allende on September 11 1973, that was a conspiracy. They didn’t call Salvador Allende first. Later you had Pinochet installed in Chile.

When the French SECRET service sank the Rainbow Warrior in 1985. They bombed the ship because Greenpeace was protesting the French atomic tests in the Pacific and Greenpeace were going there in their ships to prevent the testing. So they sank the ship with a bomb. That is terrorism, but it is State terrorism. It is the SECRET service which carried out and killed Fernando Pereira. He wasn’t informed of it, so it’s a conspiracy.

Or the Iran Contra Affair in 1986. You had Oliver North who was involved and others who sent money to the Contras which they had earnt from selling arms to Iran, and at the time Congress had said that the US could not sell arms to Iran, and then the Whitehouse ran away and secretly did it and used the money to fund the Contras in Nicaragua. That was a conspiracy.

Or if you take the Watergate break-in; this is a very interesting conspiracy [34:14]



Citation :Everywhere on the internet, particularly on social media sites, people are all posting pictures of white trails in the sky, claiming they are chemtrails. Several of my friends here in the Netherlands have done so, indirectly suggesting all commercial airliners are producing chemtrails. Just do an image search for "chemtrails", and you see nothing but pictures of trails in the sky, produced by commercial airliners.

Or a random example:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]14095[/ATTACH]



That's a different topic. Geoengineering is happening, but not over Schiphol Airport. That's the difference between what I call a conspiracy theory (regular airplanes spraying European citizens with toxic chemicals) and something that is not at all disputed (scientists experimenting with geoengineering).

Compare:

Geoengineering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chemtrail conspiracy theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think you are creating a strawman with your commercial airplanes spraying chemtrails trip. You were first person I have heard say that. As far as I was aware the people into investigating this did not mention commercial airliners but special planes equipped differently than commercial planes. So you are focusing on some fringe group saying that and using it to question the possibility that chemtrails is a reality.

I overheard recently that the UK prime minster denies the use of chemtrails and geoengineering
[URL="http://syncrenicity.com/2014/04/11/sync-alert-david-cameron-denies-spraying-people-toxins-proof/"] Sync Alert: David Cameron Denies Spraying “You” The People With Toxins *Proof*
April 11, 2014 at 5:19 pm [/URL]

Now as I told you, I have not focused my research that much into the subject of chemtrails, so am not sure of any distinction between that term and 'geoengineering'. I have found this site but have not time to read it yet:
[URL="http://www.wanttoknow.info/g/chemtrails"]
Chemtrails, Geoengineering
Documentary, Media Articles Question Chemtrails, Geoengineering
[/URL]

It is very telling Cameron denies 'both'!!
In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act ~ George Orwell
  Répondre
#35
SWIMchem5 a écrit :Want to know what the matrix really is? Here's what it is. Since the beginning of time, there were animals, plants, humans, and insects coexisting with each other. Somewhere along the line, the mean bad people among the group wanted to gain control and plunge society into ignorance. They stopped the people from exploring the mind and wanted people to only think of the now. People started becoming careless. Centralizing the food and safety so it becomes a privileged not a right. Ignoring the smart ones and good ones in exchange for hatred, and illusions of a carefree life. Then it began backfiring. The people realized that they were tricked, yet continue to drink the Kool-Aid for some time. Then the psychedelic revolution tried to warn people. It worked for a while, but then it was stopped. The peace(the key point) was stopped too. People were convinced that peace was terrorism talk. How could peace possibly be terrorism? In the meantime, the peace sign got turned upside down and even pictures were photo-shopped to turn the peace sign upside down. It's supposed to look like a tree, not an upside down tree!

That's interesting. have you got a source for that?
yes, what also has interested me was the cause of why groups went to mean and bad, and against others, other species, and the natural world. I think many radical women explain this the best, because they have been major victims of it. it is the patriarchy, and along with this is the using of animals as the first slaves. We see this again and again. How animals are captured, and even bred in captivity, and then 'tested' on, which really means tortured, and then this research is used on humans. In fact the philosophy supporting this evil is manufactured so for example there was Rene Descartes who becomes the 'heroic thinker' who claims animals are robots who do not feel pain, which is conveninet for their evil so-called 'animal vivisection' industry. But then arrives on the scene Willhelm Wundt who says similar things about humans, and that we are reduced to skin bags of chemical and electrical interactions, and are made to think of ourselves as soft robots. Who does THIS serve? A mean bad culture which treats people like robots who have no feelings, no soul. So you can see how their disrespect for other species includes humans they consider like animals, and less evolved from what they think of themselves.

Citation :Not to mention the devious works of Nixon and Rob Portman. Even corporations actively suppressed studies that show that natural and semi-synthetic psychedelics could not only cause hallucinations, but have medical and even nootropic effects at low doses. The media went from being run by people to being bought up by special interests. There was also a movement by special interests to end safety, increase the wealth gap, and privatize jails, schools, police training, and even some courts. Hence, nearly no one prosecutes gangs, but they're very eager to prosecute common citizens and dare to label them the terrorists. There's also deforestation and pollution happening at unprecedented levels. It's a war for your minds. They fear us more than we fear them. That's why they kill the smart ones among us. We are more than our surroundings. There's glitches in the matrix, and they're trying to patch it all up. There's also the fact that people tend to be edgy nowadays, where as before, they were relaxed and only casually anxious sometimes. It's like most people are either taking denial or MinusIQ.
:lol:
Don't take the blue pill or the red pill. Take the purple pill! 8)

Yes earlier I was communicating with a person in another forum who was asking whether to take psychedelics to heal his depression and anxiety. When I asked him what made him anxious and depressed he said he didn't know. This is how the culture gets many people. Via mind controls many people are not even aware why they feel so bad, sad, anxious, which is just a term for FEAR. To me it is fukin obvious. This culture is utterly barbaric and of course there are the personal problems.
As said above it drills into people they are just robots and that the surrounding natural world is dead, without consciousness. This is unimaginably horrible if you really think about it. it is the ultimate in divide and control!

Have you ever tried to talk with the debunking mindset, militant materialists? These are people who trust officialdom, be it about 9/11, WACO, Sandy Hook etc etc etc you name it. I have also found that many of these people also totally trust scientism, and thus will try and argue you into the ground if you mention paranormal events, OBEs, NDEs, any experience that is extraordinary (and this is even at forums to do with psychedelic experience!). They will tell you to go and take the James Randi challenge, because if it were true you'd win a million, so the story goes. That 'challenge' is supposed to shut you the fuck up.
Now listen, this is the main point--if you say that you experienced it yourself they try and divide you from your own experience and claim that official science knows better than you what your experience is! They will say stuff like 'you cannot trust memory, or experience', bla bla. But the bottom line is they are trying to divide you from your own unique personal experience! So again we have this divide and control strategy in action coming from the supporters of this culture.

So this is barbarically insidious isn't it??? And yet many people do not even realize why they are fearful and sad. They seem to have no idea the mind controlling assault being done to their person, to their body and soul! And this is why I want to explore this subject so that people willing to explore this become AWARE. because when we become aware of these mind controls we undermine them.
In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act ~ George Orwell
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#36
Invisible vibrational waves that can influence our emotions? WIFI, GPS, background music, television?
Fear is not uncommon when we look at our todays world. But in despite of this all, I think it is our own human brain that's still evolving into "humaness". Our ego dominant side has a dark side and in our great abilities these dark sides come out really bad. There's a mass disception going on and people are casted away from the garden of Eden. This Eden we left made us think and survive in a whole other spectrum. A bicameral mind? A constant struggle and dominating of 2 forces good vs evil where our humaness does not have yet fully distinguished what's right and wrong.
It is all these subconsiouss impulses coming at you all at once making you act spontaneous without knowing what you're actually doing. What is it we are doing?
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#37
And isn't that what control is about?
Someone who knows what you are doing....

So we all need to wake up and see what we are doing and getting involved into our own. Not into politics, but into our own psyche and see what it reveals.

This people who maintain control are in the same matrix as you, limited to the same rules; you have your tools on the other hand though Wink

But aren't we giving away our freedom by simply voting? We are so blinded today we do not see how much in control we actualy are. But we give away our freedom everyday and we take it away from others as well.

So get to know what you are doing and get the rest involved...
These people in control, they have faces today, why is it they maintain control?
What is it you are doing that keeps them in control?
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#38
Demahdi a écrit :So we all need to wake up and see what we are doing and getting involved into our own. Not into politics, but into our own psyche and see what it reveals

we control ourself... facebook...
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#39
That's not what I meant Smile Your facebook is UNDER control and you have LIMITED control Wink
See my point? What I meant is we should think of our own. Politics usually create problems to offer the solution. So basicly, politics and economics are ruining our Gaian world. But why is that? Because we let them to. We choose in our free will to suck out our world. You may not always make your choices fully aware, but all we see is the cause of all our choices in this material world.
So to change the world, we have to change our choices?
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#40
It involves a lot of supply and demand where they--the control freaks--will use MIND CONTROL to manufacture demand. This means: your thinking is not your own thinking, and even dreams are instilled too. THAT is mind control isn't it?

Have you heard of Edward Bernays? He was known as the Father of Propaganda/Spin. In early 20th century he used his uncle Sigmund Freud's psychoanalytical techniques and subliminal advertizing techniques to get 'the masses' to buy things they didn't need, and he did this by attaching desire to the products using images etc, sex and so on.

He also was commissioned by the Tobacco Industry to get more women to smoke cigarettes. He did this by arranging this massive propaganda stunt in New York city. He hired these fashionable models to be part of the suffragette movement march and when prompted to reach into their garters and light up a Lucky Strike cigarette. This SUBLIMINALLY was associating the cigarettes with mini penises, and torches of liberation. Millions of women saw this all across America!

IE he was instilling the IMAGE into women's minds that smoking made them free independent women (when in reality is just makes them become addicted to nicotine and the chemicals they add to the baccy, all of which causes them (and all people who smoke) to age prematurely and get diseases and die from such diseases!).
And of course this myth of the free idependent strong ciggy-smoking woman was pushed by propaganda-central, Hollywood where films created these 'strong female characters' who were seen lighting up cigarettes on screen etc etc. So dya see what I mean? When thinking is not your own, and has been deviously manipulated by these control freaks is when we need to really become aware what they do because doing so undermines their mind control.
In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act ~ George Orwell
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#41
And what about those signs in the music industry? Makes me think about the devil...
What forces are unleashed on this world ?
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#42
Demahdi a écrit :And what about those signs in the music industry? Makes me think about the devil...
What forces are unleashed on this world ?

Well we have to be careful we don't adopt the Christian worldview (sorry if your a Christian), because the 'Devil' is their invention!
So we have to explore what is meant by that belief, and the mythical character of the devil!
In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act ~ George Orwell
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#43
zezt a écrit :Well we have to be careful we don't adopt the Christian worldview (sorry if your a Christian), because the 'Devil' is their invention!
So we have to explore what is meant by that belief, and the mythical character of the devil!

What about the dajjal? The one eyed devil and the illuminati? Smile
Let's not adapt any religious worldview here, but let's take the scriptures and todays signals.
These subliminal messages you spoke about, the music industry is filled with them. And it seems to be me they are worshipping an evil force.
What if there were indeed 2 forces, good and evil, and religion was an early attempt on philosophy trying to describe these forces.
Why are there so many signals revealing an evil force?

And how about our bicameral mind, what if it is being abused -like you said with subliminal messages- and our only way out is to reclaim our mind. Are you familair with Julian Jayne's theory and what if we linked this with todays reptillian theory. There are no reptillians taking over the world, in stead it is our reptillian brain not knowing the right from wrong. 2 forces are constantly abused and what we meet in the center is our reality. 2 influences good/wrong are affected by a thrid source your subconsciouss. Because our subconsiousses is feeding from the world outside, we get weird outcomes. We need to learn as human to be that third source and let it come from within ourselfs. Not from images on the television or fancy words spoking by men in black. The best way is to reclaim your mind. What do we do when Kate Perry appears on the tele? Do we see the signals or are we hypnotized?
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#44
Demahdi a écrit :What about the dajjal? The one eyed devil and the illuminati? Smile
Let's not adapt any religious worldview here, but let's take the scriptures and todays signals.
These subliminal messages you spoke about, the music industry is filled with them. And it seems to be me they are worshipping an evil force.
What if there were indeed 2 forces, good and evil, and religion was an early attempt on philosophy trying to describe these forces.
Why are there so many signals revealing an evil force?

And how about our bicameral mind, what if it is being abused -like you said with subliminal messages- and our only way out is to reclaim our mind. Are you familair with Julian Jayne's theory and what if we linked this with todays reptillian theory. There are no reptillians taking over the world, in stead it is our reptillian brain not knowing the right from wrong. 2 forces are constantly abused and what we meet in the center is our reality. 2 influences good/wrong are affected by a thrid source your subconsciouss. Because our subconsiousses is feeding from the world outside, we get weird outcomes. We need to learn as human to be that third source and let it come from within ourselfs. Not from images on the television or fancy words spoking by men in black. The best way is to reclaim your mind. What do we do when Kate Perry appears on the tele? Do we see the signals or are we hypnotized?

Apparently I am a unique researcher into this stuff if you look at most of the male researchers online. They all seem to be belonging to two camps, either Christian or New Age, and I am neither. I come from a Goddess spirituality, and I have learned about this not from males but women, though the first guy who spoke to my heart after my early LSD experiences when 15 was Alan Watts, and his philosophy is of the same vibe is Goddess spirituality in that he understood nature and the body to be sacred, and understanding the polar relational dynamic of reality, how you cannot have pleasure without pain, white without black, light without dark, male without female, good without bad, form without space, life without death.
Look at the text, you couldn't know the text, form, unless the ground, space, was white

But when you look at patriarchal thinking what it tends to do is split up reality conceptually. And then on one side it will put a concept it thinks superior and on the other one that it believes is inferior. Example, take male and female, it will consider 'male' superior' and 'female' inferior, and so it goes with light versus dark, spirit versus nature, mind versus body, good versus bad. But what it is doing is NOT actually reality. Reality is dynamic processes, and if you assume an independent 'good' which can get rid of an independent 'evil' is all the insanity your seeing in the world today
This is how the Christian mindset came to create the 'Devil'. It is the ultimate duality where they unload all their dissociated shit and put it onto a figure which is part animal and part human. This is very revealing because it shows how much that mindset hates animals and being kin with other species. native Americans didn't feel that way and say all species as their relatives. But our culture fears all that, and when the culture goes into its secular mode all that toxic thinking still remains and now they consider animals having no feeling, and they torture millions of them in the 'name if science'. It is utter disrespect for animals!

I was never attracted to Julan Jaynes' theories. I do not see the problem being the actual brain, but thinking. It is when the process of thinking dissociates itself from the organism, and from the natural world, and the spiritual connection. it then goes 'I am 'this', and that is 'that'---'my' object'! And included in that 'that' will be 'its' very senses, feelings, experience...
In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act ~ George Orwell
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#45
I will address this later, because jumps are being made and I'd like to write out the details later on.
I do like to say that I don't consider myself as religious or an atheïst. I don't like the camp idea.
Though I can not get rid of this idea that something beyond comprehension strook our psyche so vast it catapulted mankind into civilization like we know it today.
I mean, time speeded up in no time. We were walking this Earth millions of years giving in to our instincts (feelings) without considering right or wrong. Then, somewhere thousands years ago, our lightbulb turns on, we understood the mathematian of our universe and started getting really involved. Then this light goes out and we walk around numb not knowing what's going on...
Isn't our own psyche being hijacked by an evil superior force which could as well be female als male... There's no gender to it, it's what it is. It is what we are trying to figure out, but I think it's the manifestation of all our thoughts collectively coming together. This force starts interacting through "sins" of humans and takes hostage of our entire thinkingworld.
Isn't that like eating the fruit and activating your reptillian brain? Getting the 3 pieces in your brain -left, right, reptillian- activated and knowing what is going on?
Everything today seems to be a scenario to deactivate 2 parts and making you act up only to the part they can feed through music, television, education ...
All these spiritual ways like yoga, meditating, praying, ... are attempts of connecting it all back together. We might not seek for a god, but we sure seek something that's been taking away from us. We felt it our entire life, like a splinter in our brain Smile
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#46
zezt a écrit :Apparently I am a unique researcher into this stuff if you look at most of the male researchers online. They all seem to be belonging to two camps, either Christian or New Age, and I am neither. I come from a Goddess spirituality, and I have learned about this not from males but women, though the first guy who spoke to my heart after my early LSD experiences when 15 was Alan Watts, and his philosophy is of the same vibe is Goddess spirituality in that he understood nature and the body to be sacred, and understanding the polar relational dynamic of reality, how you cannot have pleasure without pain, white without black, light without dark, male without female, good without bad, form without space, life without death.
Look at the text, you couldn't know the text, form, unless the ground, space, was white

But when you look at patriarchal thinking what it tends to do is split up reality conceptually. And then on one side it will put a concept it thinks superior and on the other one that it believes is inferior. Example, take male and female, it will consider 'male' superior' and 'female' inferior, and so it goes with light versus dark, spirit versus nature, mind versus body, good versus bad. But what it is doing is NOT actually reality. Reality is dynamic processes, and if you assume an independent 'good' which can get rid of an independent 'evil' is all the insanity your seeing in the world today
This is how the Christian mindset came to create the 'Devil'. It is the ultimate duality where they unload all their dissociated shit and put it onto a figure which is part animal and part human. This is very revealing because it shows how much that mindset hates animals and being kin with other species. native Americans didn't feel that way and say all species as their relatives. But our culture fears all that, and when the culture goes into its secular mode all that toxic thinking still remains and now they consider animals having no feeling, and they torture millions of them in the 'name if science'. It is utter disrespect for animals!

I was never attracted to Julan Jaynes' theories. I do not see the problem being the actual brain, but thinking. It is when the process of thinking dissociates itself from the organism, and from the natural world, and the spiritual connection. it then goes 'I am 'this', and that is 'that'---'my' object'! And included in that 'that' will be 'its' very senses, feelings, experience...

I see your point. But we have to name things to distinguish them, right? I don't like the devil idea neither, but even ancient cultures were aware of demonic powers.
I, myself, am very attracted to Julian Jayne's bicameral mind theory. Why should we exclude the spirtual connection with it? It might be our first spiritual connection made, which lead up to significant changes. I think that it came through psychedelics (such as Julian might add) and after using it for centuries mankind had "something" going on, which is now taken away. In a way they whiped out paganism in the dark ages. Let's say our mind was wide open, but they seem to be closing it up for some dark reasons. Add up subliminal messages, look at the todays suicides, depressions, deceases, ...
The devil might not be a person, but it seems to me a very evil force has taken over mankind.
The serpent? Our own serpent mind? Whatever it is, mankind seems to be bending over for it for ages spending their last dime buying more of this illness...
It's there and it's not, it's looking at us through all different persons... And it's been looking at us since ancient times...

What do you mean by "our culture"?
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#47
Demahdi a écrit :I will address this later, because jumps are being made and I'd like to write out the details later on.
I do like to say that I don't consider myself as religious or an atheïst. I don't like the camp idea.
Though I can not get rid of this idea that something beyond comprehension strook our psyche so vast it catapulted mankind into civilization like we know it today.
I mean, time speeded up in no time. We were walking this Earth millions of years giving in to our instincts (feelings) without considering right or wrong. Then, somewhere thousands years ago, our lightbulb turns on, we understood the mathematian of our universe and started getting really involved. Then this light goes out and we walk around numb not knowing what's going on...
Isn't our own psyche being hijacked by an evil superior force which could as well be female als male... There's no gender to it, it's what it is. It is what we are trying to figure out, but I think it's the manifestation of all our thoughts collectively coming together. This force starts interacting through "sins" of humans and takes hostage of our entire thinkingworld.
Isn't that like eating the fruit and activating your reptillian brain? Getting the 3 pieces in your brain -left, right, reptillian- activated and knowing what is going on?
Everything today seems to be a scenario to deactivate 2 parts and making you act up only to the part they can feed through music, television, education ...
All these spiritual ways like yoga, meditating, praying, ... are attempts of connecting it all back together. We might not seek for a god, but we sure seek something that's been taking away from us. We felt it our entire life, like a splinter in our brain Smile

You should read some women researchers who know about how the patriarchy comes into the picture. THIS is very important to know.
You use the Garden of Eden myth as an analogy. Well, to really understand that myth you have to read women (and John Allegro's The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross), because the myth is an ATTACK on women and the natural world by a patriarchal mindset!
The Serpent in that Garden was originally the Great Mother, and representing the eternal nature of cycles, and the very psychedelic fruit, and the guardian of the Tree of Life. It was a warning that eating this fruit can give psychic power and unless you transcend your ego you can become extremely dangerous. And this is what we are seeing in the world. The powers that be are INTO the occult and magick but are maniacal egos. Think of themselves as gods, and because they accept the biblical worldview take on the 'God' role, the patriarchal tyrant role. They in effect steal 'His' throne and worship their own thinking, intellect, occult powers. So they are manifesting the mythic archetype of Satan. They are possessed by their myth!
So the reptilian, or reptilian brain is not to blame. It is simply thinking which is thinking absurd stories and acting out them onto others and the world. I dont know how else to say it. Many of them and us are drilled with such stories from when we are little. These are mind controlling myths.
In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act ~ George Orwell
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#48
Demahdi a écrit :I see your point. But we have to name things to distinguish them, right? I don't like the devil idea neither, but even ancient cultures were aware of demonic powers.
I, myself, am very attracted to Julian Jayne's bicameral mind theory. Why should we exclude the spirtual connection with it? It might be our first spiritual connection made, which lead up to significant changes. I think that it came through psychedelics (such as Julian might add) and after using it for centuries mankind had "something" going on, which is now taken away. In a way they whiped out paganism in the dark ages. Let's say our mind was wide open, but they seem to be closing it up for some dark reasons. Add up subliminal messages, look at the todays suicides, depressions, deceases, ...
The devil might not be a person, but it seems to me a very evil force has taken over mankind.
The serpent? Our own serpent mind? Whatever it is, mankind seems to be bending over for it for ages spending their last dime buying more of this illness...
It's there and it's not, it's looking at us through all different persons... And it's been looking at us since ancient times...

What do you mean by "our culture"?

'demonic' powers as a concept, as in the idea that there are wholly good powers or spirits and wholly evil powers or spirits, comes about via Zoroastrianism which in its turn influences Judaism, Christianity, Islam, etc.

Yes there has been suppression of access to psychedelics for 'slaves' (not for the initiated of secret mystery schools) since at least Babylon and invention of writing. This is because the control freaks want to mind control their 'slaves' and psychedelics undo their evil work. And as you see this suppression is a HUGE reason for all types of dis-ease

I am not trying to say that there is no 'evil'. It is more I am saying it is not independent entity. It is thinking minds which dissociate themselves from feeling and empathy, and then the unfeeling stuff they do we name evil. There is freedom of choice and they choose that. Usually because they in turn have been mind-controlled. It's lack of love

"our culture" is the matrix we are born into and is oppressing us from without and within
In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act ~ George Orwell
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#49
Hi Zezt,

Which women should I read? All you've named so far is mens work. Smile I am aware with the holy female aspect in the psychedelic culture. I am not going to argue with that. Women are the door to life.
Why do you see the myth (eden) as an attack to women? Because Eve ate it or for the rules that have followed? Painful birth and your man is your lord? I try to look beyond religious rules and look for the myth and metaphor. Did you know ancient cultures in the new world spoke of a serpent too? And they did not had any contact with christian crusaders until the 16th century, might've been the 17th. I'm bad at History (and English lol). They might've adopted words like "demonic", but they were into "spirits" (evil ones too) quite a long time before Colombus discovered them. It isn't all jolly chanting and tripping, but they have undergone some dark ages as well with stories way worse then burning witches...
Maybe the real attack against the natural world came forth in the dark ages by whiping out paganism. To eventually discover it again in the new world, whipe it out all over again. Little is remained today, but it's finding its way back to the surface.

I like your view on the serpent. But why would mother earth be resembled in the serpent and not in the fruit? What I find interesting is that God keeps Adam and Eve naïve and dumb. It is the snakes who guides us to knowledge. Even the bible states we aren't equal to God until we've eaten the fruit. Maybe eating this fruit propelled us into "spirit thinking" (god figures) guiding us, bicameral mind. This might've further developed/opressed to monotheïsm. Male ego has surely corrupted this world as we see today without any doubt. To get back to the serpent, I don't think it's resembling nature but our sneaky ways developing a new "instinct", to take something and transform it into something else. To chop a tree and build a house, to kill an animal for clothes and food, ... Something really pushed the button on "FF" and things got out of hand. We were no longer adapting to our enviroment, we adapted the enviroment to us.
"Becoming our own God, getting out of nature/eden". I'm still thinking this through though Smile

Now about that occult And how science has recorded unexplainable phenomena ? How fear in a collective group can produce sounds and move objects? Such events like poltergeists? Don't look at this like "spirits" but an manifesting energy not yet explained really.
If I believe it hard enough, I can create a placebo in my mind to cure a disease. What happens if a group collectevily fears something as "real" ?
Now take this people having rituals creating a scenario on tv which creates fear. We are faced with fear on a regular base it's hatched in our subconsiouss. They create a network, a field, invisible and visible as well. We should not just turn the other way and say nothing is going on... they are killing people everyday... taking freedom away everyday...
I don't like the reptillian theory neither, but I sure find it logic to think our ego comes from an animal instinct (reptillian part in our brain) which we are still harmonizing today.

Sorry for grammar Smile
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#50
zezt a écrit :I am not trying to say that there is no 'evil'. It is more I am saying it is not independent entity. It is thinking minds which dissociate themselves from feeling and empathy, and then the unfeeling stuff they do we name evil. There is freedom of choice and they choose that. Usually because they in turn have been mind-controlled. It's lack of love

"our culture" is the matrix we are born into and is oppressing us from without and within

I never said it was an independent entity. It seems to be moving around in everyone and everywhere.
It's looking at you and me right now this very moment.

I really appreciate your input and view on it all though Smile
It is indeed a lack of love, and that's where I find Jesus' input significant important. Though I know the bible is corrupted and Jesus didn't spoke all those words. The message remains love.

This matrix isn't your culture, only if you let it to be. But I find it sad to be confronted with a world failing to see and being too lazy to understand. Our earth is dying, our freedoms are being taken, everything is ok while it is most definitly not... This movemens to change the Earth have already put in place, mankind just doesn't join them in significant ammounts to produce a change.
Look how long it took for Japan to stop whale hunting, they even tried to kill Paul Watson! They dragged him to courts, they hired assasins (elite snipers), ...
We must remain on target and keep spreading love like mycelium, all over the place!!!
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#51
Demahdi a écrit :Hi Zezt,

Which women should I read? All you've named so far is mens work. Smile I am aware with the holy female aspect in the psychedelic culture. I am not going to argue with that. Women are the door to life.
Why do you see the myth (eden) as an attack to women? Because Eve ate it or for the rules that have followed? Painful birth and your man is your lord? I try to look beyond religious rules and look for the myth and metaphor. Did you know ancient cultures in the new world spoke of a serpent too? And they did not had any contact with christian crusaders until the 16th century, might've been the 17th. I'm bad at History (and English lol). They might've adopted words like "demonic", but they were into "spirits" (evil ones too) quite a long time before Colombus discovered them. It isn't all jolly chanting and tripping, but they have undergone some dark ages as well with stories way worse then burning witches...
Maybe the real attack against the natural world came forth in the dark ages by whiping out paganism. To eventually discover it again in the new world, whipe it out all over again. Little is remained today, but it's finding its way back to the surface.

Why is the biblical Garden of Edden myth an attack on women? Well it takes all Her symbolism and using words subverts the meaning of the very ancinet preliteral cymbolism. So let us summarize: First off the 'God' makes out it is his Garden when really the very garden is the Goddess. So straight away there is patriarchal invasion of her. Next he claims to have created everything, and once Adam is created he has Eve born from the male. Now you must admit this is not natural? it is women who birth not males, but this is a typical patriarchal motif where they try and take over the birthing power of women. Also Eve herself is demoted from the Goddess to mortal woman, and like Adam is told what fruits she can and cannot eat.
As is the original meaning of Goddess mythology, her and the serpent and fruit are one, and offer it to the male, her son/lover, but the patriarchy twist this to mean that she disobeys 'God's' authority and that doing so, and corrupting Adam brings death into Paradise, and corrupts human nature. In other words this myth implies a static reality beforehand where there was no dynamic free will, and no polar relation between life and death. In other words they INVENT a problem and then offer a solution which is 'abide by the authority of God so as to once again return to 'paradise'. Do you see how toxic this myth is? He curses nature, and casts Adam and Eve out of the Garden telling them they will tiol in a horrible environment and women will suffer in childbirth. 'He' also suppresses knowledge of the Goddess religion he is ripping the images from, and blames woman for his toxic shit story? Miserable old control freak!

Yes that mindset took their evil to the so-called new world whereupon they oppressed peoples there, and stopped them taking psychedelics, and tortured and murderd vast amounts of people, the same as they had done in Europe!

You definitely should read Monica Sjoo. She has been big influence for me, The Great Cosmic Mother: Rediscovering the Religion of the Earth, by Barbara Mor and Monica Sjoo, and Return of the Dark/Light Mother or New Age Armageddon? Towards a Feminist Vision of the Future, by Monica Sjoo The latter is so good because she exposes the roots of the so-called New Age, and shows that it is dualistic, sexist, racist, and ecodical. This is very important to know because proponents of the New Age appropriate use symbols and metaphors from Goddess spirituality, but subvert their original meaning. Their New Age philosophy maintains a divide and control strategy which suits the people in power. So it is important to understand this so you can undermine such mind control.
Unfortunately, I cannot link you to her articles because for some reason they are not seeming to be accessible. I have contacted the people who run the site to find out what has happened. You can see her artwork however.

You can read the works of Val Plumwood online, Feminism and the Mastery of Nature
In this book she reveals the influence Plato has had and still does on Western philosophy and how he puts out the myth that a 'masculine principle 'spirit' controls and dominates 'feminine matter' from within.
Citation :“But for most of the history of Christianity the tendency to view the material world as alienated, as evil, or as having at best meaning and significance as an instrument to a separate higher spiritual realm, has triumphed. These views of nature are the precursor to later mechanistic ones, in which the redemption of nature is attained through science, while emphasis on the domination of nature without replaces or supplements Christian and Platonic emphasis on the domination of nature within.” Page 106
Also checkout Carol P Christ Reading Plato's Allegory of the Cave as Matricide and Theacide by ... Reading Plato

Citation :I like your view on the serpent. But why would mother earth be resembled in the serpent and not in the fruit? What I find interesting is that God keeps Adam and Eve naïve and dumb. It is the snakes who guides us to knowledge. Even the bible states we aren't equal to God until we've eaten the fruit. Maybe eating this fruit propelled us into "spirit thinking" (god figures) guiding us, bicameral mind. This might've further developed/opressed to monotheïsm. Male ego has surely corrupted this world as we see today without any doubt. To get back to the serpent, I don't think it's resembling nature but our sneaky ways developing a new "instinct", to take something and transform it into something else. To chop a tree and build a house, to kill an animal for clothes and food, ... Something really pushed the button on "FF" and things got out of hand. We were no longer adapting to our enviroment, we adapted the enviroment to us.
"Becoming our own God, getting out of nature/eden". I'm still thinking this through though
Smile

Earth is the very body of the Goddess, the her Fruits of of her very essence. If we are meaning psychedelic fruit which the garden of Eden os covertly doing, and most mythology means this, then the eating of such Fruit is initiation into Her Mystery, the mysteries of nature. Now the Great Mother of course includes universe also. In this lunar mythology there is no duality between nature and heaven.

Yes the 'God' of that biblical tale does not want 'his' creatures, Adam and Even to eat of the Fruit of Knowledge or Life (they really refer to same Tree cryptically). Like our culture does, 'he' wants us dumbed down and blindly obedient to his authority. No questioning.

Citation :What the authorities really forbid is the subject's efforts of self-determination. What they fear most is a narrowing of the gap between ruler and ruled. How this gap is measured---whether in theological, economic, political, racist, sexual or psychiatric terms---is not especially important.
Revolt against authority, was, and remains to this day, the original sin, and the classic crime of the individual ,
, by Thomas Szasz

But I see you still insist on joining that mindset in denigrating the Serpent. Rather, see through that mindset and love all other species, and understand healing rather than toxic metaphor. The latter kind divides and controls you via fear-based mindcontrol. it makes you fear the Serpent, and women, and your own nature, and the natural world.
ALL animals adapt to the environemnt like you say, but you confuse the permacultural way with the patriarchal domininant agricultural way. It is like your saying the only alternative is for us to become hunter gatherers? Well know, please checkout about Permaculture. You can live settles and also work with the intelligence of nature.

It is very important to also know the Luciferian interpretation of the Garden of Eden myth. I will summarize it: It really is the flip side of the biblical version. In the Luciferian one the 'God' is evil, and has made the Garden of Eden as a prison whereby he tries to totally control Adam and Even.
Whereas in the bibical version the serpent is Satan, in the Luciferian version he is Lucifer and is there to liberate Adam and Even and tell them that eating the Fruit will make them into gods.
So what does this myth mean? Well THEIR meaning of 'gods' is really an exclusive secret experience only 'evolved initiates' of the 'Mystery schools' can have. This is adry worship of their own intellectual and occult powers. And the ones in power follow this myth.

So how does this myth differ from the Goddess understanding?

Well as you see the Luciferian myth immediatell sees the Garden of Eden/nature as a trap, so it already makes the believer paranoid of the natural world and beliving it is made by an evil 'God', and so it ALSo creates a problem, and its solution is intellectual and occult power so one can dominate and master one's own nature, others, and the natural world.
This myth like its flipside is totally at odds with Goddess spirituality. In the latter nature, and one's own unique nature and body are sacred. So there is no fear being here in the natural world as a body, and with your own nature. The Earth and universe is the Great Mother. There is nothing to fear. Her Fruits are for healthy body and soul. Ingesting psychedelics inspires us to explore the depthless mysteries of creationing~~~

Citation :Now about that occult And how science has recorded unexplainable phenomena ? How fear in a collective group can produce sounds and move objects? Such events like poltergeists? Don't look at this like "spirits" but an manifesting energy not yet explained really.
If I believe it hard enough, I can create a placebo in my mind to cure a disease. What happens if a group collectevily fears something as "real" ?
Now take this people having rituals creating a scenario on tv which creates fear. We are faced with fear on a regular base it's hatched in our subconsiouss. They create a network, a field, invisible and visible as well. We should not just turn the other way and say nothing is going on... they are killing people everyday... taking freedom away everyday...
I don't like the reptillian theory neither, but I sure find it logic to think our ego comes from an animal instinct (reptillian part in our brain) which we are still harmonizing today.

Sorry for grammar Smile

I do not understand poltergeists so am not prepared to say what it means. Yes I very much am interested in the 'placebo' effect and it speaks to me of the intelligence of nature whose essence is healing.
yes the control freaks use mind control and a big part of that is fear-based mind control which is very much what 9/11 was all about!
I don't blame the instincts. I think the ego--its destructive phase--comes fore from thinking which dissociates its self/process from organismic reality. It objectifies its own nature, and body, and others, and the natural world and wants to dominate. here is a great quote from Monica Sjoo, and Barbara Mor's book mentioned above:

Citation :Reading The Sun God chapter from, The Great Cosmic Mother:” This was the pattern: The sun hero who vanquishes “evil” in the form of monster serpents or dragons was originally a moon hero, like Hercules, and as such the son/lover of the Great Goddess. In moon mysteries he overcame death in ecstatic self-transcendence experiencing luminous oneness with her. But when he becomes the patriarchal sun hero, he kills the Mother Goddess in Her dark underworld-serpent aspect. Instead of transcending his ego, he “transcends” the whole world, cosmic union giving way to worldly conquest and destruction of the sources of life. He destroys life in the name of “conquering death”. Jungian psychoanalysts interpret this process as the liberation of the individual ego---the male ego, of course---from the “forces of darkness” and “the unconscious”, i.e., the mother. The hero’s action in rescuing the “maiden” from the dragon symbolizes, Jung says, the freezing of his own anima—his essential self—from the “devouring” aspect of the mother. This almost suggests that woman, in herself, is merely a projection of the male anima; and indeed that’s what women are in most patriarchal systems. Jungians have never shown an awareness of the politics of mythology---or of mythology as the history of the preliterate real world. The sun hero is doing more than “liberating his ego” from the mother; he is “liberating” his being from responsibility to the being of the world. He liberates himself by arrogantly and recklessly destroying the interconnecting webwork of which he is a part---and then the “tragic hero” is surprised when he looks around himself, and sees nothing but wasteland and death…The sun hero slashes through the timeless web of interconnecting life energy and lays it all waste, in order to enjoy swift satisfaction, fame, and conquest. Conquest of what? Of the fact that life is paradox: (1) the fact that psychic powers are deeply hidden and dangerous, needing to be guarded by wisdom (the serpent guarding the treasure), and (2) the fact that their release can cause destruction as easily as integration. The sun hero wars against the double-edged reality of the cosmic process, slashing through paradox, denying cyclic recurrence and the serpent wisdom that comes with it, refusing to believe that his ego must die before the true magic power can be safely revealed. From Marduk to Superman, he is a little boy warring against the subtle (serpentine) nature of life: demanding it be made neat, simplistic, logical, unambiguous, designed as a flat stage for his triumph---and nothing more.
In The Second Sex Simone de Beauvoir catalogues men’s hatred and fear of woman because she presents him with the ambiguities with life and death, his classic response to these ambiguities is denial and conquest. (pages 255-256)
“The pattern was repeated everywhere. The Sumerians* who invaded Mesopotamia circa 3000 BC plundered the superior civilization of the settled matriarchal inhabitants, and put their own solar king on the throne. The solar king was surrounded by solar priests, who “rewrote” religion into a mythic-spiritual rationalization of war, conquest and “royal” hierarchy. Since the Sun God rose to power through war and conquest, it follows that the mythology, popular epics, and religious doctrine of worldwide patriarchy should stress and glorify the virtues of warriors. Facism is inherent in a patriarchal worldview. Life came to be seen as a battleground in which the victor deserves his spoils” (pages 257-258)
In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act ~ George Orwell
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#52
posted twise
In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act ~ George Orwell
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#53
Demahdi a écrit :I never said it was an independent entity. It seems to be moving around in everyone and everywhere.
It's looking at you and me right now this very moment.

I really appreciate your input and view on it all though Smile
It is indeed a lack of love, and that's where I find Jesus' input significant important. Though I know the bible is corrupted and Jesus didn't spoke all those words. The message remains love.

This matrix isn't your culture, only if you let it to be. But I find it sad to be confronted with a world failing to see and being too lazy to understand. Our earth is dying, our freedoms are being taken, everything is ok while it is most definitely not... This movemens to change the Earth have already put in place, mankind just doesn't join them in significant ammounts to produce a change.
Look how long it took for Japan to stop whale hunting, they even tried to kill Paul Watson! They dragged him to courts, they hired assasins (elite snipers), ...
We must remain on target and keep spreading love like mycelium, all over the place!!!

How do you mean about Paul Watson? have you got a source for that?

I was sat in a garden yesterday, feeling good, and at one with everything, and I thought about earlier cultures who were relatively peaceful, and all of a sudden a BIG BULLY came into their midst and started treating them bad, dominating and telling them what to do. THAT is our situation. We are oppressed. Although I do not smoke cannabis anymore, I still see it as totally wrong that this culture can criminalize people for simply growing a plant in their garden!!!

So I thought about school, and how bullies happen there. And the reaction is often the school authorities who PRETEND that their have 'zero bullying policy' EVEN when a child has killed them self, and it is obvious they were being bullied, and they will claim there is 'no evidence'. So it is like they use WORDS as some kind of magic act. That IF they put out a statement, a series of words delivered by authority, that set or words is the 'reality' and real reality is NOT reality. See what I mean?
In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act ~ George Orwell
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#54
zezt a écrit :How do you mean about Paul Watson? have you got a source for that?

I was sat in a garden yesterday, feeling good, and at one with everything, and I thought about earlier cultures who were relatively peaceful, and all of a sudden a BIG BULLY came into their midst and started treating them bad, dominating and telling them what to do. THAT is our situation. We are oppressed. Although I do not smoke cannabis anymore, I still see it as totally wrong that this culture can criminalize people for simply growing a plant in their garden!!!

So I thought about school, and how bullies happen there. And the reaction is often the school authorities who PRETEND that their have 'zero bullying policy' EVEN when a child has killed them self, and it is obvious they were being bullied, and they will claim there is 'no evidence'. So it is like they use WORDS as some kind of magic act. That IF they put out a statement, a series of words delivered by authority, that set or words is the 'reality' and real reality is NOT reality. See what I mean?

The same can be said regarding government stating that scientists in certain states can't say what is causing global warming and that special interests seem to fill the white house and other countries too. The government's full of hot air and America especially has become an anti-intellectualism type society. None of the scientists can speak their minds regarding MDxx(ecstacy) and 2C-x being safer than alcohol. Safrole's non carcinogenic, yet government says it is without any evidence. Plus, future research is being inhibited by government bias. This can lead the way towards effective treatments of deseases. http://ecstasy.org/info/parkinsons.html BBC News - Modified ecstasy 'attacks blood cancers' Anti-intellectualism is popular among governments and prevalent among most of society. A well informed society is a conscious society! To be continued.
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#55
Yes I admit, it is very contraversional how Eve came into life. It's totally the other way around as it should be. Though, isn't this a chicken egg discussion in the end. In who came first... I think we would agree on most things when it comes to religion. Though, who is "he" you are refering to? A monotheisthic male dominant God ? Let me reasure you I don't see our creator the way genesis portraits. But I do notice something significant somewhere 6000 years ago and somewhere 2014 years ago. In a blink of an eye we are "masters of the universe". We start speaking, writing, calculating, building, building networks of justice, philosophy, science, art, ... In a flash of an eye! Then this "Christ" word comes somewhere 2014 years ago which strook mankind so hard that even the greatest supressors didn't know how to put out its flame. They had to adjust their entire systems to this "Christ" energy that took over peoples mind like an opium. They had to or people wouldn't co op with the system anymore. I think Constantine is to blame for that, again I'm not that very good in history. We might never know what went on back then, but to reset the calender to 0 again, it must've been something huge.
Something might've really been going on, another operating system. I'm not going to say it was this or that, My best guess is that Jesus was a paganist and they prisoned our mind by inverting the practices. I'm pretty sure it was a shamanic state of healing Jesus practiced. "This is my flesh, teonanacatl". But that's just me having weird thoughts coming up lol Smile Just my humble opinion so you'd see I'm not so Christian as most people would see a Christian.
I truly admire your passion and dedicated efforts you put into this. I see why you see it that way. You put it out yourself, we did not know life and death. Though it happened... we knew if something didn't move it remained that way. But we had no conception of death and life we have today. I still see the garden of Eden as earth where mankind is not yet the dominator. We are still the same as animals. No art, no science, no philosophy, bairly a language... Then this serpent comes into play and let's us eat something psychedelic. Suddenly in a flash of an eye we touch our own psyche and create a whole new spectrum of thinking. What is life? What is death? Yes this might've been captured by a male dominance. This male dominances did all we see today, science, medical care, philosophy, ... If we did not listen to this serpent and did not give in into our selfish needs, mankind might've not been here... It is like the flow of life we can not get away from, it goes as it goes... everything is bound to happen one way or another. But the outcome of the results depends on our choices. What are we going to do with all this knowledge we have? You can't just put all the blame on male dominance.... Each has its role to play and to fullfill one another.


I have googled Monica Sjöö and I am familair with the "godess" aspect. I love females work But to be honest, I'm not that much in that kind of philosophy. I prefer a book of Terence Mckenna, lift off Smile He mentions the goddess quite much, but at the end of his life he keeps mentioning this logos etinty...
I know little of Plato and Socrates, but I do know they were great minds. And Socrates had critique against the way democracy was formed... Most philosophy back then was based on war, deception and yes control. But still... what we have in the West today is still the best attempt mankind has come up with yet. It isn't perfect yet, but we shouldn't give up on getting there. I don't see how a Goddess or God might overthrow this issue. Maybe we should just balance things up with a consensus as dominator, democracy should be it. But how can we attain a center with 7 billion people is the great challenge. A system has no gender, it is operating through a structure. The structure is formed on peoples choices, male and female. There is no culture more liberated then Western culture. Women and men are given the same social rights.
You mentioned Earth is being taken hostage by male dominance. I'm not going to argue there, but I don't see Earth as a goddess. I love the gaian mind behind it all, but it has no gender. And if it had, It would be hermaphrodite. Yes we notice how male dominance easily takes over, but why should that be a bad thing? Do you think a woman can't be corrupted in the system? Each has a role to play but both are equally susceptible to forces coming from the 7 sins. Today this manifests in another spectrum then "the garden". Our garden today is a social economic structure, an antfarm each doing its job. This is the matrix, a structure creating a field which entangles us all together. Choices flow together and they build up into massive events. It is constantly updating itself and reforming. When you limit a structural system but these events keep piling up, system will crash. Women and men are both responsible for this. It manifests on a level I lack the words to describe it. But times of hunting and gathering are over. We don't pause to think what we are doing... we keep consuming our earth like cancer. We are a tumor taking over the place.
Why shouldn't duality be the blame for this? What is wrong with trinity? Left, right, center? Wink I'm not denigrating the serpent, I'm praising it. It see it is our survival-instinct. If it was not for the serpent, we might not have reached it to this point... It was the key to understanding our role as humans. We can work the land and use products to form them into something else.
I don't find myself drawn to "The Cosmic mother", ... and I can't look back in time on how Sumerians did their thing nor the rest, so we are left with vague impressions. The essence is what we are going to do with it today? What choices should we make?
I thought I might never say this, but isn't the best choice giving up on God(dess)? And search for a unity?

I have seen the attack on Paul Watson on Whale Wars. If he didn't wear kevlar he would've been dead. They were several hundred meters away from a Japanese whaling fleet on sea with lots of wind and the sniper didn't miss. He missed his head though, luckily.
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#56
In the Garden of Eden myth---see it as a play, a drama. So we have as cast of characters:

'God' = male and powerful spirit creator of the universe, and all beings including Adam and Eve

Adam = first male created by male God in HIS image

Eve = woman created from first male, Adam's rib

Serpent - Satan who is....? yeah, male!

Where is the feminine spirit? Where is God's wife?

it's all male male male, and couldn't you be fucked off as a male if it was all woman woman woman characters? And the male mortal was blamed for fucking everything up?

I don't think things HAVE to be the way they are. IE that the myth HAD to be like that, and people HAD to then be influenced by it, and we as we are now because it HAS to be. I just dont dig that. And why should I? Why should I accept that most of the people in the world are in poverty? it SUCKS and I am not happy about it. I think it is disgusting, and the people that maintain this system which causes this disgrace are repulsive criminals. BULLIES. Soulless cretins.I am not gonna make excuses for them. THEY do that themselves (by the way me doing caps is not me shouting at you Smile, its often easier than using the italic button)
They push myths like the Darwinian myth of 'only the strong survive' and make out they are only doing what it says in the script. Well no, that is MIND CONTROL. If you believe their lies you believe them and your under it. AND you do it yourself
In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act ~ George Orwell
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#57
Yes, I see your point strongly. But don't take the drama literaly. We know these scriptures have been messed with. Look at them eating the fruit and gaining knowledge. The ancients in the new world spoke of a tree of knowledge too... So there are very strong indicators that psychedelics may have catapulted us into "humans" instead of "animals". I don't really think that eating it is to blame to anyone, but it sure might've been "Eve" since they gather and men hunted. Why should anyone be angry at Eve for that?
I don't see God as male, nor female. I have read Genesis all the way through and I do not find something I find worthy calling God. Yet, I still am strongly convinced religion is the oppression of a greater truth we are now puzzeling out Smile So I believe there must be clues and when one reads between the lines, you may find funny conclussions. Why men have always ruled, I don't know, but we see that changing today right?

This outcome, you call male dominance, was inevitable. Today we are still growing as humans and getting it all figured out more and more. So now women are growing more free and independent so it should be a matter of few generations before they catch up with man in the field, whatever field it may be lol.

Funny you mention Darwin. As my avatar would suggest, I rather seem to observe creation then evolution. Though I can not deny evolution. Evolution has gotten so many words and observations attached to it. Same observations, different assumptions which suckers people in a neverending debate... But I do observe a constantly updating and thriving for suvival. If you look at the bees and the flowers you may be stunningly suprised how magical natural selection works

In the end, it isn't our beliefs that ruins the world, it is our choices.
What is it we do?
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#58
SWIMchem5 a écrit :The same can be said regarding government stating that scientists in certain states can't say what is causing global warming and that special interests seem to fill the white house and other countries too. The government's full of hot air and America especially has become an anti-intellectualism type society. None of the scientists can speak their minds regarding MDxx(ecstacy) and 2C-x being safer than alcohol. Safrole's non carcinogenic, yet government says it is without any evidence. Plus, future research is being inhibited by government bias. This can lead the way towards effective treatments of deseases. http://ecstasy.org/info/parkinsons.html BBC News - Modified ecstasy 'attacks blood cancers' Anti-intellectualism is popular among governments and prevalent among most of society. A well informed society is a conscious society! To be continued.

SWIMchem5 a écrit :The same can be said regarding government stating that scientists in certain states can't say what is causing global warming and that special interests seem to fill the white house and other countries too. The government's full of hot air and America especially has become an anti-intellectualism type society. None of the scientists can speak their minds regarding MDxx(ecstacy) and 2C-x being safer than alcohol. Safrole's non carcinogenic, yet government says it is without any evidence. Plus, future research is being inhibited by government bias. This can lead the way towards effective treatments of deseases. http://ecstasy.org/info/parkinsons.html BBC News - Modified ecstasy 'attacks blood cancers' Anti-intellectualism is popular among governments and prevalent among most of society. A well informed society is a conscious society! To be continued.

Yes, I have been hoping really articulate people would communicate about this. Authoritarianism seems to make STATEMENTS and they are supposed to suddenly be THE reality because 'authority' says so.


When the prohibition of psychedelics was announced from the UN building (New Age Headquarters!), they STATED that

Citation :"psychedelics have no medicinal value"

or words to that effect! And THAT statement is supposed to ACT as a magic. Don't they call these fucked up laws they pass "ACTS"?
In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act ~ George Orwell
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#59
Demahdi a écrit :Yes, I see your point strongly. But don't take the drama literaly. We know these scriptures have been messed with. Look at them eating the fruit and gaining knowledge. The ancients in the new world spoke of a tree of knowledge too... So there are very strong indicators that psychedelics may have catapulted us into "humans" instead of "animals". I don't really think that eating it is to blame to anyone, but it sure might've been "Eve" since they gather and men hunted. Why should anyone be angry at Eve for that?
I don't see God as male, nor female. I have read Genesis all the way through and I do not find something I find worthy calling God. Yet, I still am strongly convinced religion is the oppression of a greater truth we are now puzzeling out Smile So I believe there must be clues and when one reads between the lines, you may find funny conclussions. Why men have always ruled, I don't know, but we see that changing today right?

Not sure if you are understanding what I have been saying.
I think it unwise to assume that aminals don't also know and feel. I hate it when humans strut their stuff and believe they are so superior to other animals. there is so much evil in that attitude. I much prefer native American respect for other species, and in their myths feature animals as teachers!

About 'God' punishing Adam and Eve for weating the Fruit, as said that is the patriarchal subversion of the far more ancient Goddess myth where eating the sacred fruit was encouraged.

It's all very well when people say they don't think God is male of female. I am saying the the patriarchal idea is 'he' is male'. We have to face that, and wonder the state of the world which is coming from that mythic root. What does it mean for how we understand women, males their own feminine, and nature, which has usually been thought of as feminine.

Do we see the patriarchal myth changing today? I just see insanity. I see ecocide, and exploitation of other humans, and other species. So no, things are VERY fucked up!

Citation :This outcome, you call male dominance, was inevitable. Today we are still growing as humans and getting it all figured out more and more. So now women are growing more free and independent so it should be a matter of few generations before they catch up with man in the field, whatever field it may be lol.


But the patriarchally driven males aren't really free and independent. they are pitiful and obsessed by stupid thinking which is cut off from critical thinking, and feeling, and others, and nature. So it is very insulting to think women have to "catch up" with THAT ugggghhhh.

Citation :Funny you mention Darwin. As my avatar would suggest, I rather seem to observe creation then evolution. Though I can not deny evolution. Evolution has gotten so many words and observations attached to it. Same observations, different assumptions which suckers people in a neverending debate... But I do observe a constantly updating and thriving for suvival. If you look at the bees and the flowers you may be stunningly suprised how magical natural selection works

In the end, it isn't our beliefs that ruins the world, it is our choices.
What is it we do?

Agreed. it is toxic beliefs that ruin the world. That is all I am trying to explore. like how do you even know your thinking is yours. We are drilled in their schools and hooked on their media and they do mindcontrol. So surely getting itno becoming aware how and what they are doing helps us undermine that. This means questioning all the stuff tat is accepted as 'reality'.
In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act ~ George Orwell
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#60
Trust me I understand what you are saying. And I may not express myself always as well in English, I think the messages comes through. I find the Goddess quite interesting, but I don't think it's wise we should address genders to something divine. These outcomes were univetible. When you place drugs on the earth, man is going to find and use them, eventualy. I am fully aware on how male dominant religious hiërarchies are, but I was hoping we could look beyond that. I respect your opinion and I have already pointed out I truly admire your passion. I even agree! But please recognize I do not support this male dominance, I'm just saying it was univetible. It isn't all bad, the world is a big place, and it has been a mans world long before religion was invented. What's the blame then? Our instincts? We can't blame the banana for not growing horizontal, right? You say the Sumerians put up their sungod and took over a Goddess power, but how sure can you be of that? We are left with vague impressions... Jumping to conclussions in a foggy world might leave you dissapointed in life.
I have never said animals don't have feelings and emotions, where did I do that? What I said in context was that animals don't have art, don't have science, don't have medical care, don't have philosophy, don't have religion, don't have social economic structures.... Yes Zezt, we are totally different from animals. I am not saying by this they aren't equal. But something happened to us, and the signs are pointing out to a tree of knowledge... A psychedelic... And that's where I find the Bicameral Mind an outstanding work of lecture describing this phenomema. We are still getting our s..t together, and females are giving equal cards more and more. I didn't mean to be insulting by saying woman are catching up. I'm just observing that in science, art, medical, philosophy etc the genders are predominantly male. Things go as they flow, you can't bend things forever... So if they weren't catching up, what took them so long in the first place? I'm not trying to be offensive here, I'm just painting out a view.
Everybody is free to believe what they want, but again, it isn't our beliefs what ruins the world, it is our choices. If you believe the grass is blue it would not matter to the elements of earth. If you believe nuclear power can be advantageous for mankind that is your right. But if people choose to build them near coastlines where earthquakes occassionally occur, they're just plane dumb. Yet I choose to buy nuclear energy because it is cheaper. The circle is complete, you see my point? I can live without energy, I can pay more for "green" energy, but why would I, I'm driving below 2 rpm to safe gasoline these days.
What does it matter if you are sucking out a goddes or a god or a gaian spirit? What matters is your kids are going to breathe its air, eat its fish, drink its water, ...
What choices should we make?



zezt a écrit :Do we see the patriarchal myth changing today? I just see insanity. I see ecocide, and exploitation of other humans, and other species. So no, things are VERY fucked up!

Make them eat more fruits? Smile
Use your goddess powers and encourage.
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