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The talk bad about alcohol(ethanol, "drinking alcohol") thread. Ethanol is deathanol!
#1
This thread is about talking bad about the consumption of alcohol and alcoholic beverages. A participatory anti-booze rant if you will. I'm sure thousands, if not millions want to vent their frustrations, but they get silenced all too often. They supposedly kill Bob Marley by literally shoving alcohol down his throat and lungs. Why? Amy Winehouse ended up dying because of alcohol. Why did the media hide this? This is a trash all booze thread! All too often we see ethanol glorified, but seldom do we see anyone saying the bad about it.
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Ethanol has a higher NFPA 704 than many lab solvents and is more harmful to health.
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Also, ethanol has some of the highest metabolites. It's very harmful. Ethanol is deathaol.
People think just because it's constantly promoted by governments, it's safe. However, this couldn't be further from the truth. Ethanol is the earth's kryptonite. It keeps us in a conformity state and they don't advertise alternatives.

Have something bad to say about alcohol and alcoholic beverages? Post it here!
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#2
I tend to consume a lot if tequila. Other alcoholic bevs make me sick. Tequila on the
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#3
I tend to consume a lot if tequila. Other alcoholic bevs make me sick. Tequila on the other hand does not. Can any one explain this? Also to note, I am doing the best I can to create the dmt experience with the confidence that it could eliminate the cravings or urges to participate in lesser dealings. Peace All !
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#4
Please use the "edit post" button to avoid double post.

Interessant post tough. Specially the 2m2b comparaison, i wasn't aware that it was less toxic than ethanol, i was thinking the opposite.

I'm a bit of an alcoholic myself, but only a few beer everyday, never strong alcohol and never drinking to be drunk. And yes it's a bad habit. I've seen friends became less smart, fat, the alcohol really hurt people.
If your head is too open your brain falls out
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#5
darn cannot seem to get rid of that first post that was only half written. Also would like to say about Tequila, I really do enjoy it. one reason because it is not against the law. I would like to cuss right now on that whole subject, tho another place and time. I am very new here. Appreciate any advice on the navigation. Peace:?
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#6
Its a tool, just like every other mind-altering substance.

Some more dangerous than others.

You would never use a saw to hammer a nail, would you?
I'm not here to make someone else rich.
Art shop; Etsy.com/shop/jonhelander
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#7
I can only agree with that statement but in this way of thinking for what would you use alcohol as a tool ? I'm interested.
If your head is too open your brain falls out
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#8
The most obvious is to break down social barriers, and to increase the flow of thought in conversation. This is how it has been used since its discovery.

All too often, however, alcohol is used for dangerous reasons;
1. For whatever reason, of which I don't understand, people drink when they are sad. I would assume this is to lift the spirits, but we all know this doesn't work.
2. People use it to substitute a shortcoming, "The drunker I get, the funner this will get."
3. People also use it to get back to that '1st time' feeling - that crazy party you had when you first got a really good buzz going, and everything was so epic.

These lead to alcoholism, abuse, binge drinking, and the damage in which the OP is talking about.

Personally, I find alcohol a very introspective, sometimes awe-inspiring substance. There is nothing in the world that can replace a few drinks in the middle of nature on a moon lit night for me. That is one of the most powerful experiences I can partake in. Even hallucinogens can fail to compare at times.
I'm not here to make someone else rich.
Art shop; Etsy.com/shop/jonhelander
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#9
Bob marley killed by alcohol? Never heard about that. Bob was killed by cancer,that,s what i have been told.

I never was a big drinker myself and i never get drunk. Only two times in my life did i get really drunk and it happened years ago. I don,t like the feeling of getting drunk. The feeling i get when i drink is that i get more simple minded (dumb or stupid). I do not like getting sick of the alcohol or having a hangover next day. I rarely visit a bar or a pub because i really do not like those places. I think the standard bar or pub are very boring places.
I do not really mind drunk people. however they can be annoying or even get aggressive. Sometimes they tell the same stuff over and over, or get very emotional.

When i drink i do not drink much and always take it slow. When i drink i drink whiskey or rum. I do not like beer or wine. Beer and wine makes me feel sick. Sick in the guts (burping and gas) and headaches.

I am not a puritan, i do enjoy drinking sometimes. I do like the taste of a good single malt whiskey or a good glass of rum and coke (cola). I am a moderate drinker and i want to stay a moderate drinker. More often then not a make the choice to not drink.


There is a lot of alcohol taking going on around me. And i have been around people who drink and drunk people for most of my life. I had neighbors who had problems with alcohol and who could not control themselves. I have friends, family who do consume a lot of alcohol. I know people who spent most of there free time being or getting drunk. When the doctor or family members try warning them about the dangers they won,t listen.
They are addicted, what can you do about it? If they don,t want to get cured of there addiction there is very little hope.
All addiction are more or less harmful. harmful to yourself or to your relationship with others. Alcoholism can be very harmful and destructive.

it is curios that amy winehouse did a lot of drugs most of which where illegal. However it was the legal drugs alcohol that killed here. What does this say about about the drug policy? It tells me that the drug policy has nothing to do with protecting people against harmful drugs. It has everything to do with the anti drug morality of the church and religion, thats what i think.

The use of alcohol is very much ingrained in the culture. It is all around us. It is part of tradition and there are rituals surrounding it.It is considered normal. Because it is part of the culture and legal it is seen as a social drugs and people are easy seduced to start drinking.
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#10
Alcohol(ethyl alcohol) is the blue pill and damages and mutates genetic code at least subtly(some mutations don't do much until a second mutation occurs). It increases conformity and inaction. The main problem with the governments of the world is that they don't offer any alternatives and prohibit most of the safer and more enjoyable alternatives. Furthermore, the government's arguements is that people need to "have a choice", yet for substances like 2C-I, MDMA,and MDEA, they ignore the same scientifically and experientially proven arguements. They have no actual scientific basis for only revealing the "good" side of ethanol. They don't want us to have any other choice than stupid, crappy ethanol. We need more choices. Perhaps they fear peace because they lose control over how they decide us to think and feel. In a way, they turn us into mere batteries. Most of us drink their kool-aid without question.

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/687105-a...th-men-and
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#11
Why does everyone keep conforming and drinking the freaking governmental kool-aid! drinking ethanol sucks! It fogs the mind during the effects. I hate the mind fog! It's one of the only drugs to do that. That's right. Ethanol's a drug. A very RETARDED drug!
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#12
Like I said - its a tool.

Use it to a point that fogs the mind and you're doing it wrong.

Ethanol has actually been proven to increase creativity, problem solving, and concentration at the 1-3 drink mark (depends on the person).
I'm not here to make someone else rich.
Art shop; Etsy.com/shop/jonhelander
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#13
But it's an illusion. It makes you make sense out of less things. Why must ethanol be the only thing available.
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#14
Just as much an illusion as serotonin and dopamine are.
I'm not here to make someone else rich.
Art shop; Etsy.com/shop/jonhelander
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#15
The point is that it's the only substance legally available. It increases conformity over time and makes you less proactive. It causes subtle genetic mutations that attack the proactivity gene. Ethanol is Deathanol! Why do you think most hippies didn't drink ethanol? Why can't 2-methyl-2-butanol and 2C-C be widely promoted and sold in stores? Why must 99.9% of society continue to do nothing and be semi-alcoholics while the governments continue to push anti phychedelic research laws and anti ecstasy laws. The alcohol companies are the ones to push the most legislations that are anti MDxx. When Rob Portman sheduled 2C-x, there was no outcry either and people just reached for an alcoholic beverage and forget about it. Propranolol and Amobarbital are tools too. Why can't they be readily available? It's not really about short term damage. It's a gradual continual damage that becomes passed on from generation to generation. The problem are more that alcohol companies and governments don't educate us and that we seem to have a global society which gives us no other choice legally. It is only alcohol that's legal. That's the problem! It hurts sperm and it hurts babies in the womb. The people hurt future generations before they are even born. I won't drink their kool-aid anymore! This is afterall, The talk bad about alcohol(ethanol, "drinking alcohol") thread. Ethanol is deathanol!
I guess this is what a debate feels like. We talk about our viewpoints and present evidence. It's too bad schools don't have debate teams anymore. They are probably afraid that society will develop creative and critical thinking. We need the decrminalization of substances which are less harmful than ethanol combined with education and a warning that says "Ethanol is deathanol" with a scythe and a skull!
Sperm Mutations Caused by Alcohol, Tobacco and Pesticides Are Transmitted Along the Generations!
Did you know that scientists say alcohol is as bad for you as hard drugs? | TG Daily
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009...utt-sacked



And Einstein's quote.
Quote by Albert Einstein: We can not solve our problems with the same lev...
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#16
I agree with your overall premise, but I don't think attacking alcohol is right. Cars are incredibly dangerous, and kill thousands of people every month, but they are tools, essential in this world (wish they weren't!) you can misuse them and cause damage. It doesn't mean we should start yelling at people promoting cars.

I don't believe that ethanol sedates you to become a conformist. Alcoholics generally quit their jobs and go on welfare or become homeless because they get irate.

Opiates sedate you, nootropics will sedate you, mood leveragers will sedate you (As you posted about). These make you feel good while under stress, thus allowing more stress to accumulate without the outcry of unfairness. I would be much more willing to work a shitty robot job under a shitty governmental police state if I got to take opiates every day. [Point being - any mood enhancer, ethanol included, is going to cause 'conformity' because it brings euphoria where in sobriety it would not exist].

I've never taken a 2C-x compound, but I highly doubt I could work on it. I also don't believe the idea that these cause zero long-term damage. I do, however, agree or acknowledge that these compounds, given our current state of society, would produce anti-conformity, which is, in general, why they are illegal.

Nobody wants to work at an office desk while high on LSD. The world is too beautiful for that.

In fact, we should be banning the stability of serotonin. After all, serotonin is what actually causes conformity. It is the ultimate 'leveling' neurotransmitter.
Get locked in a pitch black cell and get beaten every day?
Serotonin will eventually make the experience 'normal'.

Serotonin is one son of a bitch...

SO = What I'm saying is that ethanol is dangerous, sure. But if used wisely, consciously, and with respect, it should not be called 'deathanol' - this is the very same reasoning that gets other compounds banned. When used out of disrespect and unwisely, someone gets hurt or dies, and everyone else must suffer for it.

Our culture is obsessed with no-repercussion use, i.e. its obsessed with the idea that things can be used without harm.
In nature, that is incredibly rare, if not impossible to find.
I'm not here to make someone else rich.
Art shop; Etsy.com/shop/jonhelander
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#17
well alcohol is a poison and like with all poisons, it's figuratively or literally the degree of the toxicity and the amount that determines what it does. if used right, poisons can add to healing also... maybe a little bit like IJC says.. that there are many levels or so... i suppose it's probably something a bit like "what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger" kind of thinking, yet it's most probably not in all cases the best way of thinking in regards to poisions. one crucial idea is probably, that everyone is different.. about neurotransmitters i am not really sure, but maybe what if not everyone's neurotransmitters function exactly the same way?
or what if for example, let's take a few buddhist monks or so, have neurotransmitters that we don't even have? just an idea..
btw if you ask me, i do think we should yell at people promoting cars, depending on how they do it.

i think alcohol is probably almost all over the world more or less a traditional part of many cultures or so.
but i also think culture can often be very dumb. the western culture is certainly in my opinion to a great degree too toxic. i guess the thing with alcohol is that it's something that got to do with social aspects of human beings. it can break down social barriers, but it can also create social barriers. i mean like, even though it's probably a bit oversimplified, if people would drink and then stop making war, then it would be good. yet unfortunately, in reality it's often that people drink and then become unrelaxed. is it positive or negative connecting etc etc...??
so maybe you could say in some way or so it's often not the drug that's the real problem, but more pointing towards the social aspect, how people treat each other and themselves.

so in conclusion i guess i would say alcohol has something great, but it also certainly has some sort of downfall.
it appears to me, that there definately are greater substances, but society is in many places probably not ready or at least not completely ready for them. i would say, conformity is only good, if what you conform to is good.
man, i hate all forms of violence. still waiting for more quantum leaps in society's evolution. when people are so ready that their intuition and healthy common sense are enough to decide what to put in their bloodstream. (=with some substances you should have some knowledge or so) i hope you know what i mean...
take care!!



peace
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#18
I have never suggested that ethanol be banned. I simply suggest that ethanol have a warning that would say "Ethanol is Deathanol" with the ethanol molecule resembleing a scythe. And that more options be legally available. Then after that warning, it would be up to the individual to study up on ethanol's overall effects from scientifically accurate sources instead of from forged government "studies". I agree with BrainEater in the dislike of violence and in wishing that people would be capable enough to study up on what they'll put in their bloodstream. We all wish that people would make those quantum leaps in evolution. It feels like only a few people have been able to make that evolutionary leap.
I like calling ethanol "deathanol". If ethanol is no longer put in alcoholic beverages or promoted, it becomes very unpopular and it may one day drop dramatically in price and be available as a lab solvent without being denatured. Then those who become intoxicated would be rushed to the hospital until they sober up. If it would be abused in that scenario, it would be called "lab solvent abuse" and that person may get treatment(voluntarily) to stop the solvent abuse. Or they'll continue while the others simply warn that person and ignore them without joining. Death rates per year would plummet and people would make their decision on evidence both observational and from medical journals. People would then treat it like rat poison. Even the mere balancing of the constant pro-ethanol advertising with the phrase "Ethanol is deathanol" at the end and having "Ethanol is deathanol" with an ethanol molecule that resembles the reaper's scythe and a skull on top printed on all of the alcoholic beverages would likely deter a few people from using or continuing to use it. Everything else has a valid warning. Even hot coffee has one. In my opinion, "drink responsibly" is not a valid warning, it's just mild advice. It's that even a slight consumption hinders your ability to re responsible slightly, and thus, the advice contradicts itself. No one's gonna die just because there's the phrase "Ethanol is deathanol". Even a slight cunsumption of ethanol can shorten lifespan by a few days, weeks, or even months. So that phrase isn't even lying to anyone. "Ethanol is deathanol" not a confusing phrase. It's not confusing at all. "Drink responsibly" is a somewhat confusing phrase. People have nowhere to voice their concerns. Why don't we have a website that's like "dislike ethanol? visit ethanolisdeathanol.com to talk bad about ethanol unsumption". There are no places to complain. Therefore, are we truely free.
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#19
That is quite an information you have out there..i guess that would be certainly helpful and if followed in the same manner..not much of anything would be affected.
No ads.
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#20
The problem is that some people have self destructive tendencies and get addicted. I also wish people would be better educated about the use of substances like alcohol. I wish they would legalise psychedelics. If you ask me everybody (adult) should have the freedom to use what they want. If you decide to destroy yourself it is your own choice. If people make this choice let it be a educated choice. Some people just want to destroy themselfs and don,t want any help. It is sad.
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#21
So the premise is that of the bandwagon mentality? So do we just call ethanol lifanol?
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I don't want to just be another brainwashed conformist! So governmental kool-aid is god somehow? The dumb ones have controlled society for thousands of years. No one notices when scientific oppresion occurs! No one!
http://ecstasy.org/info/parkinsons.html
BBC News - Modified ecstasy 'attacks blood cancers'
Morpheus: The blue drink or the red drink.
Me: Screw it! I'm taking the purple drink!
Alcohol = blue drink. People are consuming way more than 1,200ml yearly when they should be consuming less than 1,200ml a year. The more people consume ethanol, the less proactive they are and the more they conform. It's like Neo from the matrix taking over 10 blue pills a day.
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#22
I agree with Larry.
SWIMchem5 is repeating the same things over and over again (just like drunk people sometimes do:yawinkleSmile
The problem is that the goverment is trying to control what we do and don,t. what we put in our body,s.
People should be free to do what they want. The government should stop being our big brother/mother/sister telling us what to do.
Educating people is fine. However people should also educate themselves and be responsible for themselves.
If you ask the government to put warning on drinks you act like a child who needs daddy and mommy to tell em what is good and what not.
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#23
hey!!! larry... not nice... Sad really no need to become offensive...and i think you're somewhat projecting something... also as if you had thought "really" totally deeply about it... man... argh.. :? what if we're being played out against each other like that? and what if the status quo of many nations in the world, simply is based on dumbness and dumbing down, besides alcohol scientifically fitting in such a category. i think the analogy/comparison of alcohol and the blue pill is maybe not the best in all cases, but considering the state of the world how it is and how it has been for a while, in general i would say it's not really bad either.
also not saying it always has to be bad, that all drinkers are stupid, and that is not even the point, but i can surely understand the anger of swimchem5 towards the ignorant "culture" that there is in so many places of the western world and that is a lot based on alcohol.
stupid barbarians!!!!!
besides actually it seems to me swimchem5 didn't really demand anywhere what larry said...maybe if he is demanding something, he is demanding to be free from the oppression of the alcohol based society or so, and that is certainly justified on the plain of human dignity, pursuit of freedom and happiness and what not. yeah, there are many levels, right??? *sigh* Sad
and also what if at least partly it can be concluded that the alcohol culture is behind the war on drugs, so why not fight back or at least discuss or go in such a direction... doesn't mean you always have to go exactly in that direction, you know? so wtf really!? :Oo:
maybe both have some points or so... stupid to say only one is right... why be so aggressive and go against your own people? why not say it in a different, positive helping way? Sad
i say we will lose if we always go against our own people like that... Sad



peace
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#24
I do not think the alcohol culture is behind the war on drugs. I don,t think that cultures that are not alcohol cultures are in any way better then non alcohol culture.
I think the problem is not alcohol. The problem is the government and religion. The governments are playing big brother/sister/daddy/mommy and telling us what to do.
I know that alcohol is not healthy. But don,t you think people are responsible for themselves? don,t you think people should be free to make there own damn choices. Why must the government have to put warnings on everything? to warn dumb people from doing dumb shit?

Okay warnings may be a good way to inform some people. And it may change the way we think about alcohol. I agree on that.
However i do not think alcohol is THE blue pill or something like that. The biggest blue pill (problem) are the government and religions (big brother/father/mother/sister) who dictate to us what we can and can,t do.
There are country,s where alcohol is prohibited because of religion. Do you think people in these country,s are smarter?
I do not think so. These people live in a religious dictatorship and i do not see what is great about that.
Religion is the biggest reason why alcohol and other drugs as well are prohibited.

if people want to drink let them drink. You may tell them it is unhealthy. But if they don,t listen or don,t care what can you do?

Please feel free to answer these questions.
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#25
calling someone a brainwashed conformist because he likes to drink is a form of discrimination.
it,s not okay to (negatively) discriminate someone for his sexual preferences or for the color of there skin.
Why should this be different with drugs? I think judging people because they drink alcohol is stupid and short sided.
I call conformist brainwashed people conformist brainwashed people.
If you want to see some brainwashed people go look in a church/temple/mosk, maybe you will find some of them there.
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#26
BrainEater has a point. We both have our points. The semi-alcoholics and the psychonauts, and the both. The premise here is that ethanol is too advertised and there's no alternatives or one simple warning. However, the bigger premise is that there's no culture that is non-alcoholic culture. The mind is very complex. I think that since the beginning of time, the few controlled the many using ethanol. I read somewhere that in the 1800's, the Russians didn't drink. Then a shitty king came along and forced alcohol into the culture and throwed wine parties and pressured Russians intensely to drink alcohol and made death threats. The once very advanced civilization is now only second most advanced. At least they made phenylpiracetam recently which can inprove the mind. Why can't societies which consume little to no ethanol be left alone? If they had their own group and can be left alone, they'll have somewhere to talk to like-minded people about. There has always been tribes, societies, and cultures that have been divided by governments. It's divide and conquer. Maybe someday, we settle this over a glass of soda with some 2-methyl-2-butanol. Wink:jook::tonqe: :+1: I think I should get around to getting some 2m2bOH(2-methyl-2-butanol) sometime. Peace!
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#27
Why are my questions not answerd?

There are places where alcohol is prohibited. The muslim faith as well as the buddhist faith prohibits the use of alcohol. There are a lot of people who do not drink.
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#28
I think ethanol is worth putting a warning on. Even lab ethanol which haven't been denatured needs the "Ethanol is deathanol" warning. The Buddhist thing sound good. They were always about trying to reach enlightment and not doing anything that can stop them from reaching it. If alcohol(ethanol) and alcoholic(ethanol containing) beverages have a valid warning and some people still consume it, at least it will not be so much because of the constant advertising and colorants and flavorings added. I assume most people drink ethanol because they are taught that it's not a drug and that they just want to "fit in". I personally believe that ethyl alcohol causes genetic mutations(some of them undetectable until further generations) and these genetic mutations get passed on from generation to generation. Most other things that causes genetic mutations can be prevented using antioxidants. However, antioxidants do not protect against the genetic mutations that ethanol causes. Buddhists have often been persecuted. It's likely because their ideas of general non violence, abstaining from booze, and reaching enlightment would cause a loss in the power structure in selfish governmental bastards. Stupid fucking government killing Buddhists monks in other countries, and then they say "freedom of religion". Maybe the U.S. government uses the excuse of "oh, they're not in our country, their in that other country". If we really believe that governments should let us do what we want, why is it that people don't notice or protest the constant torturing and imprisonment of Buddhists from other countries? Why not fight back and protest when hippies were prevalent? Why not now with Buddhists? Why not collectively drop the Kool-Aid for a while and stand up for something? If people see others trying to make a difference, they rather gulp some Kool-Aid on the couch and don't even sparingly read up. People call the local news "news" and most people rather get used to the ever-collapsing(at a slow but exponential rate) system and have even more Kool-Aid. The structure of the system makes reaching caring, peace, and awareness like reaching the stratosphere. The computer isn't letting me separate things into paragraphs lately.
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#29
My vision of bees also got ruined recently. I thought bees(the actual insect) turned pollen into intermediates into nectar into honey using special chemicals they produce, but it turns out that all they do is use nectar to make beeswax and extract the honey part of it. That was a huge downer. Perhaps we don't have a world that can fit into any specific set of formulas. It may actually be that only if I had a specific barbiturate and propranolol, I can test out the false memory creation properties and if I screw up, propranolol is there to alleviate the sadness and trauma from a sad false memory. I guess in the end, we each do what we do. To each their own.
How about fermenting propanol and ethanol at home? Then you can distill to get purer product. Propanol seems somewhat better, as propionaldehyde is less toxic than acetaldehyde. The article reads threonine can be used for fermenting propanol. Propanol as an end product of threonine ferme... [Arch Microbiol. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI
Is propanol the future of fermentable alcohols?
Furthermore, chlorobutanol can be made from chloroform and acetone. Chloroform is made from acetone and pool bleach(NaOCl). The problem with making chloroform is that if anyone notices a giant bucket, it'll seem very suspicious.
2-methyl-2-butanol would theoretically be an awesome alternative to ethanol. Ethanol hurts the reproductive system at nearly any level. It also displays toxicity due to toxic metabolites. 2-methyl-2-butanol is not toxic and is only dangerous because at doses too high it displays too much sedation. Unlike ethanol, 2-methyl-2-butanol does not cause genetic mutations. It's also easy to manufacture on an industrial level and it's cheaper. 2-methyl-2-butanol does not cause amnesia, hangover, or irrational behavior. It's more clear headed and can boost confidence and sociability so it can be anti anxiety.
Perhaps ethanol's damage is gradual, but it may likely cause genetic mutations that cause people to be more fearful and conform more. Even cutting back on it helps.
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#30
Finarfin a écrit :Why are my questions not answerd?

There are places where alcohol is prohibited. The muslim faith as well as the buddhist faith prohibits the use of alcohol. There are a lot of people who do not drink.

Maybe it has something to do with fusel alcohols like isopropyl alcohol and others. I'm not entirely sure. It could be something in the hops. Some people can't stand the substances in hops. Maybe it's that some alcoholic beverages have gluten in it. Some people are gluten intolerant. It's good to know that there are some faiths that rarely if ever drink booze.
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