SSRI Decline effects of psychedelic drugs -Can i reverse it?

[rafael1000]

Hello :wink:,

I take an antidepressant, before it was escitalopram (20mg/day) and now it's venlavaxine XR (150mg/day), and it is proved that SSRIs and SSNRIs (like my antidepressants) inhibit the cytochrome P450 CYP2D6.

But CYP2D6 is necessary to have effets with psychedelic drugs such as LSD, MDMA, BZP, Magic mushrooms, codein, opiates... because there metabolism is mainly through the enzymes CYP2D6 !

Yesterday i took MDMA and BZP (party pill XXX) and I had relatively few effects, especially no physical euphory, I had mydriasis and i was speed, but no love and well being !
Same with mushroom with effects during 1 or two hours and effects were very very lowered comparatively as when i taked no SSRIs.
When i didn't take antidepressants, effects were so much high and appreciable !

I want to continue taking my medications wich inhibit CYP2D6 because I need it to feel better, but what can i do when i want to make a "normal" trip with LSD, MDMA, BZP, Magic mushrooms or others drugs that need CYP2D6 to be synthetised? I want to enjoy drugs when like i didn't took any medications, so what can I do?

Can I accelerate metabolism of enzymes CYP2D6, or desinhibition of that enzyme?

Have you ideas to enjoy much better psychedelic drugs when on antidepressors?

I could stop my medications a few days before taking the drug, but I will have discontinuation syndrom and withdrawal symptoms and i didn't schedule when I take drugs so I think it's a bad idea.
Do you have a better idea?

Thx for your help which could be very appreciable (and sorry for my poor english ^^)!

 

[Meduzz]

i'd advice you to solve your depression. with or without your medication.
there is a good topic here about dealing with depression and psychedelics.

i don't know how severe your depression is, but if you really can't go without your medicines, i would advice you to not touch psychedelics until you have talked with a professional who knows your backgrounds.

if you want to enjoy the psychedelics like you did before, i see no other way than to stop your medication, so you need to solve your depression first.

solve problems as close as possible to the root of the problem.

it's up to you to make the good choices :wink:

good luck!!


edit: here is that topic: http://www.psychonaut.com/index.php?opt ... 86&lang=nl

 

[Maru]

and it is proved that SSRIs and SSNRIs (like my antidepressants) inhibit the cytochrome P450 CYP2D6.

Never heard about that. Do you have a link to check that info ?
Maybe it's just 'you'... ?

 

[rafael1000]

and it is proved that SSRIs and SSNRIs (like my antidepressants) inhibit the cytochrome P450 CYP2D6.

Never heard about that. Do you have a link to check that info ?
Maybe it's just 'you'... ?

There are psychiatric documents on it or erowid, wikipedia... This is verified by number of people

 

[Maru]

Ah ok, I found thoses :
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_info9.shtml

But not so sure about the link with the enzyme :
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/md ... ogy1.shtml

Although it was fomerly hypothesized that genetic variations in CYP2D6 activity might influence the risk of MDMA toxicity, CYP2D6 activity now appears unlikely to be a major source of variance in adverse reactions.

And links with other psychedelics and SSRi seems not that reliable.

 

[rafael1000]

There are others sources on erowid on the interaction between SSRI and serotonin drugs.

Look at this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entre ... d_RVDocSum

CONCLUSIONS: These results suggest that blockade of 5-HT reuptake by fluoxetine can dampen the effects of MDMA and further supports the role of 5-HT in its behavioral effects in humans.

Or this : http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=48799

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=10612

Experience Vaults: Ecstasy & Paroxetine (Paxil) - Paxil + MDMA = Nothing

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_info9.shtml

SSRIs tend to cause reduced physiological and mental effects when taken before MDMA

And the most complete :
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info4.shtml

The Interactions between Hallucinogens and Antidepressants

And there are many others sources...

http://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=6207

[quote:34boki49]“Chronic administration of serotonergic antidepressants attenuates the subjective effects of LSD in humans

 

[Forkbender]

I want to continue taking my medications wich inhibit CYP2D6 because I need it to feel better

No, you need it to feel less.

Feeling better has to do with feeling everything better, not just the positive feelings, but also the negative ones. It's your dislike of negative feelings that draws you into your depression, because you don't want to feel those. And not wanting to feel those, makes you not feel anything, which makes you feel 'bad'.

 

[Forkbender]

Depression is a serotonin thing.
SSRI's are a serotonin thing.
MDMA is a serotonin thing.

If you screw and unscrew a screw too much, it won't work, because the metal becomes 'tired' of moving. You can take as much as you want, but it won't do anything.

 

[rafael1000]

I take those medications because without those, I need all the time drugs like cocaine, MDMA... To feel better, to be more sociable, to feel more normal!
Without drugs I feel that i am incapable.
And I have social phobia.

But we can't take drugs 24h/24 except with SSRI, because I want to feel good, deshinibited, all the time !

I want to find an "artificial paradise"...

Escitalopram did nothing for that, but I expect Venlafaxine will work for me !

Venlafaxine hydrochloride is in the phenylthylamine class of modern chemicals, which includes amphetamine, methylendioxymethamphetamine (MDMA), and methamphetamine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venlafaxine

 

[Forkbender]

I take those medications because without those, I need all the time drugs like cocaine, MDMA... To feel better, to be more sociable, to feel more normal!
Without drugs I feel that i am incapable.
And I have social phobia.

If you have so many problems, why doesn't it occur to you that you might be wrong regarding the idea that you NEED drugs?

Never take drugs to feel normal. Better go to church.

 

[Meduzz]

I want to find an "artificial paradise"...

:shock:
read "brave new world" by aldous huxley
it would help A LOT

 

[Forkbender]

You can only go to paradise if you are willing to face yourself completely. Sounds to me you are not willing to do that. Artificial paradise will therefore only make you more unhappy.

 

[rafael1000]

I don't know what is my psychiatric problem but i am an addict because i think life stinks, i live only to feel well being, if drugs (Rx drugs or illegal drugs) not existed, I think I would kill myself. I have no self esteem, no self-confidence, and i am very asocial, except when I take drugs.

So I take antidepressants expecting being more happier, enjoying more life.
I began a psychotherapy, maybe this could help me too.

But the problem of antidepressants is interactions between psychedelic drugs.

Have you ideas to enjoy much better psychedelic drugs on antidepressors, or do i need to stop them few days before taking MDMA ie ?

 

[Meduzz]

i am an addict because i think life stinks,

like i said, solve your problems at the root

get a girlfriend maybe?

 

[rafael1000]

i am an addict because i think life stinks,

like i said, solve your problems at the root

get a girlfriend maybe?

I am 19 and i am totally uncapable with girls, i have social phobia so I can only have girls when on drugs. I didn't had any girlfriend since 17 months, and it was my first girlfriend, and she rapidly leave me (after 6 days...).

I am totally uncapable to abord and seduce unknown girls.

I stopped school because i had no motivation and I feel so bad when many people are around me !

At party, I am totally lonely and don't know what to say, i'm inhibited and scared, except on drugs too.

I have so much problems to solve... I hate me so much !

 

[Forkbender]

Seeing that you take drugs to escape reality, I'd suggest taking a close look at yourself, asking yourself why you do that. You need to be a bit rough on yourself. Life doesn't suck, it is the most beautiful thing we can imagine. (But why wars, but why hunger, but why pain?- you ask?: Because otherwise there would be no pleasure, no wisdom, no peace. We need bad things to learn to transcend). Your viewpoint of reality seems conflicted: you need to learn to look beyond the egoic into the transcendence of everyday life. Take a look at yourself, you are worth it. Don't judge yourself, the feelings you have. LET THEM BE, AND THERE WILL BE LIGHT. It is not bad to feel bad, it is not bad to feel good. Just make sure you feel it. Otherwise your body gives stronger and stronger messages and you need more and more meds to ignore this fact. Listen to yourself, without judgment, with love and you will learn how to see beauty.

 

[Forkbender]

Know thyself. You are the solution to your problem. Drugs aren't.

 

[Meduzz]

your social problems are there because i think it's been a long time you had social interactions when sober.

of course, drugs make it a lot easier. but i think you have never learned how to do it sober.

SO:

you are pissed about yourself for not being happy without drugs.
so i guess your biggest wish is to be happy without drugs.

when you're unhappy don't go the easy way (drugs) because they only fight the symptomes.

fight the problem. (AT ITS ROOT!!)

 

[rafael1000]

Know thyself. You are the solution to your problem. Drugs aren't.

I know it, but i don't know how to solve my problems by myself.
I am interested in bouddhism, but don't know if it could help me.
Drugs are the more easy and fast solution to forgot my problems.

 

[rafael1000]

your social problems are there because i think it's been a long time you had social interactions when sober.

of course, drugs make it a lot easier. but i think you have never learned how to do it sober.

SO:

you are pissed about yourself for not being happy without drugs.
so i guess your biggest wish is to be happy without drugs.

when you're unhappy don't go the easy way (drugs) because they only fight the symptomes.

fight the problem. (AT ITS ROOT!!)

To fight the problem at its root, i began a psychotherapy.

When I was sober, when i didn't taked drugs, I was also asociable. This come from when I was young and rejected by others, I began to isolate me and now I'm only sociable on the internet (MSN) because i have fear or what others think of me